Darryl Keil Last Activity 2024-04-17 6:18 AM
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joe mcaskill

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Joined: 2011-10-25
Location: charlottetown, pei, canada

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Subject : applying border to crotch mahogany perimeter table
Posted : 2018-06-22 7:47 AM
Post #37780

Hi all,
I am applying a curly maple border to a crotch mahogany round table. The border will be on the inside and outside of the perimeter leaves. I am thinking about a way to index the layup position so that when trimmed the border will all line up with each leaf. I have already fitted the substrate leaves to the round main table, now i have to position the veneer exactly so the borders will line up on each leaf. The borders will be about 1" wide inside and out. I thought of laying the leaf on the veneer, position and trace a pencil line around the leaf on the veneer. I am just wondering if the leaf may creep when the vacuum is applied. Any thoughts or better ideas?


 
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Don Stephan

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Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: applying border to crotch mahogany perimeter table
Posted : 2018-06-24 7:24 PM
Post #37781 - In reply to #37780

After reading the description a number of times, I'm still not sure exactly the layout. Is this on the edges of the pieces of the tabletop, or the surface? Are you describing a center field of crotch mahogany, a separator of some sort, a 1" wide piece of curly maple, another separator, and a second piece of curly maple? If the tabletop is one piece, couldn't the sheet be assembled, then glued as one to the substrate, then a router swung in a circle to trim the edge round? Wouldn't matter in that case if the sheet slipped a fraction during a glueup. If my interpretation is wrong, can you explain in more detail?


 
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Darryl Keil

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Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: applying border to crotch mahogany perimeter table
Posted : 2018-06-25 10:30 AM
Post #37782 - In reply to #37780

Yes, more clarification please. Like Don, I am unclear about the maple border being on the inside and outside...dont understand.


 
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joe mcaskill

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Location: charlottetown, pei, canada

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Subject : RE: applying border to crotch mahogany perimeter table
Posted : 2018-06-25 3:07 PM
Post #37783 - In reply to #37782

The main 60" round table is made up of 8 pieces of crotch mahogany with a burled walnut marquetry piece in the center.
The pieces that are being bordered are the 8 leaves that fit around the perimeter of the 60" table. The borders are part of the top veneer layup. There will be a 1" maple border on the inside radius and the outside radius with the matched crotch extension in the middle. When they all fit together all of the banding has to line up from leaf to leaf. I am concerned the veneer may move when the vacuum is applied.
Thanks Joe
Attached file : Crotch-mahogany-table.jpg2 (34KB - 29 downloads)



 
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joe mcaskill

Posts: 24

Joined: 2011-10-25
Location: charlottetown, pei, canada

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Subject : RE: applying border to crotch mahogany perimeter table
Posted : 2018-06-25 3:23 PM
Post #37784 - In reply to #37783

Here is a picture of the perimeter leaf veneer without the maple borders. The maple will go on the inside and outside radius. The leaf itself has a drop leaf shape that fits the outside shape on the main table and all eight of them have already been fitted to the main table so position of the veneer when glued has to be exact.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Attached file : perimeter leaf.jpg (32KB - 14 downloads)



 
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Darryl Keil

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Subject : RE: applying border to crotch mahogany perimeter table
Posted : 2018-06-25 3:27 PM
Post #37785 - In reply to #37784

Are these leaves to be removable or once assembled, permanent?


 
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joe mcaskill

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Location: charlottetown, pei, canada

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Subject : RE: applying border to crotch mahogany perimeter table
Posted : 2018-06-25 3:34 PM
Post #37786 - In reply to #37785

They are removable Darryl. They all attach to each other and sit on pull out rails.


 
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Darryl Keil

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Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: applying border to crotch mahogany perimeter table
Posted : 2018-06-28 12:07 PM
Post #37790 - In reply to #37786

Wow! You’ve got quite a challenge there now that I understand what you are attempting and frankly, I dont see an easy way to do it. In hindsight I would have put the maple border on the main field ahead of time with extra width so there would be room for adjusting and trimming. I’m not a fan of putting borders on later. If you like, feel free to call me and we can discuss strategies, too much to attempt here. 207-725-0935


 
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Don Stephan

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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: applying border to crotch mahogany perimeter table
Posted : 2018-06-25 6:24 PM
Post #37787 - In reply to #37780

Sounds like "leaf" is being used to talk about the pieces of veneer and outer pieces to extend the diameter of the table. I'm going to refer to the latter as "extension pieces" to try to avoid confusion.

If I understand, you are not trying to continue grain/figure match of the maple from extension piece to piece. You are wanting to make sure there is EXACTLY one inch wide curved strip of maple on the inner perimeter of the extension pieces and EXACTLY one inch wide curved strip of maple on the outer perimeter piece, with the perimeter pieces made in advance.

While I don't usually get significant movement of the veneer on the substrate during insertion into a vacuum bag, I'm always leaving a slight overhang and planning to trim the substrate to final size after the adhesive has cured. Even a movement of 1/64" in opposite directions on adjoining perimeter pieces would be noticeable if the maple runs to the radial edges, and I can't imagine how you would hold slippage to less than 1/64".

The only way MAYBE to achieve this kind of accuracy that I can imagine would be to make the perimeter pieces and veneer skins slightly oversize, make an EXACT template for the perimeter pieces, carefully place the template in EXACT position after the veneer skins have cured on the perimeter pieces, and then pattern route the perimeter pieces to final size.

I can understand that the described look would be striking, but the needed degree of accuracy seems unlikely. My suggestion, in combination with pattern routing if necessary, is to change the design for the perimeter pieces. For example, if the perimeter pieces were skinned with burl the alignment issue is eliminated. A different look, certainly, but would it be better than mis-aligned white strips?

Or create a border all the way around the perimeter pieces using maple or burl, with the crotch mahogany inside. If the border maple or burl has to be made up using several pieces of veneer, orient so the seams are radial (pointing towards the center of the table) and there won't be distinct reference points where the perimeter pieces meet to show slight mis-alignment. This would allow the perimeter piece skins to be slightly oversize on the already formed perimeter pieces, and then trimmed to the actual edges of the perimeter pieces. If this border all the way around each perimeter piece is about 1" wide, minor mis-alignment will be harder to detect. Hope this makes sense.


 
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Pete

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Joined: 2009-04-14
Location: CT

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Subject : RE: applying border to crotch mahogany perimeter table
Posted : 2018-07-02 3:04 PM
Post #37791 - In reply to #37787

I have made veneered perimeter leaf tables like the one you are doing. It was quite a while ago but from what I remember- I layed up the main table veneer oversize slightly and pressed that. I made a pattern for the top that was used to flush cut the top round. The leaves were pressed up over size slightly and then a pattern was used to cut those. That way you can make sure your patterns mate properly. The banding(which wasn't done on the tables I made), I would do that last with a router.


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