Darryl Keil Last Activity 2024-02-06 2:11 PM
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Craig Mascolo

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Joined: 2010-01-13

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Subject : Jointing Edges on Long Pieces of Veneer
Posted : 2016-07-04 2:29 PM
Post #37502

I've done a fair share of bag veneering on veneer lengths under 5 feet. Now I am faced with veneering a 96" long top with the grain running lengthwise. I am using 4.75" wide veneers of walnut needing to get a total depth of 26" cross grain. Shooting the edges of such long pieces sufficient to tape up tight joints has me puzzled. Any thoughts on jigging up to shoot such long pieces? Thanks.


 
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Don Stephan

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Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: Jointing Edges on Long Pieces of Veneer
Posted : 2016-07-04 3:20 PM
Post #37503 - In reply to #37502

In his Marquetry class many years ago Paul Schurch demonstrated two approaches, and I've used both.

To get clean edges when hand cutting doesn't help, he used a Festool saw and track, with the veneer on a sacrificial piece of MDF. Can't remember a detail as to which blade type, seems like he installed the blade backwards? Maybe someone else has better memory. I've just used I think a high ATB blade installed normally and gotten great results.

To get as good an edge as possible, I align the edges, trap with a narrow overhang between two pieces of 3/4" MDF, and then shoot with a good #8 jointer plane taking multiple light cuts (I have the Lie Nielsen).


 
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ckurak

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Joined: 2006-10-28
Location: Florida

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Subject : RE: Jointing Edges on Long Pieces of Veneer
Posted : 2016-07-06 10:25 AM
Post #37504 - In reply to #37503

Paul covers the Festool saw method in one of his videos.

The blade was NOT installed backwards!!!

He ran the SAW backwards. He started at the far end and pulled the saw toward him, the opposite of what we would normally do with a circular saw.

He used a Festool ATF-55 circular saw with a "negative rake tooth blade" and the rail guide (track).

So, if you are thinking that my memory is that good? Nope.

Try watching this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93ElgjF9oFw



 
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Don Stephan

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Subject : RE: Jointing Edges on Long Pieces of Veneer
Posted : 2016-07-06 7:03 PM
Post #37505 - In reply to #37504

Thanks for making sure all have correct info. MY memory too often needs help.


 
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Jeff Patrick


Joined: 2004-04-15
Location: Bainbridge Island, WA

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Subject : RE: Jointing Edges on Long Pieces of Veneer
Posted : 2016-07-21 4:41 PM
Post #37516 - In reply to #37502

I have jointed many hundreds of feet of veneer using my Festool saw and track. I use the standard ATB blade, I don't run the blade nor pull the saw backwards. Just standard cutting procedure. I do push quite slowly. Sometimes for very difficult veneer I will use blue tape on the cut line and cut right through it. I usually stack all the flitches that I will be using in any given panel. If the stack gets too tall I use less in the stack. The edges produced are perfect. Every panel I've done since adopting this method has gone together flawlessly. The method is the fastest set-up of any I've tried.


 
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Craig Mascolo

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Subject : RE: Jointing Edges on Long Pieces of Veneer
Posted : 2017-02-12 4:47 PM
Post #37562 - In reply to #37502

I am going to answer my own question. I thank everyone for their input and replies, but the key point to my question has not really been addressed. That is,jointing LONG edges of veneer. Through trials in my shop with this material, the only way to get clean edges and truly tight joints for taping up such long lengths, is to construct a custom shooting board to shoot the edges with a hand plane. I use a Lie Nielsen #62 low angle jack plane for this work, as it can be set for a very fine cut and the angle of attack is delicate enough to shear the edges of the veneer without tearout. Using walnut this becomes a major consideration. It's my plane of choice for shooting very thin, all-wood veneers. So to handle the long sections (over 96" in length) the long shooting board is the answer. In this case I made one 108" long. Forget using any type of saw, Festool or other, and forget the router along a straightedge. With squirrely veneer having long grain daylight along the edges, power tools of any kind will give you headaches on tearout and material waste. Shooting with a good sharp handplane is the only way to go for control and optimum results. You just need to make that shooting board long enough to accommodate your long material.


 
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Don Stephan

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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: Jointing Edges on Long Pieces of Veneer
Posted : 2017-02-12 6:28 PM
Post #37563 - In reply to #37562

In my post last July the 2nd method offered was jointed MDF as a straightedge with a handplane. The only difference in our approaches is I use the longer #8.

Were you looking for some third method besides power tools (router or tracked circular saw) and a hand plane?


 
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Jeff Patrick


Joined: 2004-04-15
Location: Bainbridge Island, WA

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Subject : RE: Jointing Edges on Long Pieces of Veneer
Posted : 2017-04-29 9:05 PM
Post #37610 - In reply to #37562

Sorry, I don't look in at the forum all too often so I'm late with this reply. Nevertheless..... I strongly disagree with your opinion regarding the festool track saw. I can join my 8' and 4' tracks for a total of 12' and still get perfect results. Some veneers simply can't be cut smoothly with anything, but the festool saw is the best I've ever used. The track has a vinyl cut backer to keep tearout to a minimum on the top of the sheet. The veneer should be placed on a sacrificial sheet of something smooth under the veneer. I use plywood. If the grain is very difficult, I apply blue masking tape to the top and cut through it with the saw. Frog tape gives good results also. There is very little veneer longer than 12' so I don't see any limitation to using a track saw. And, my track (even the joined together one) is as straight or straighter than any shooting board one can make in a typical shop.


 
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Don Stephan

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Subject : RE: Jointing Edges on Long Pieces of Veneer
Posted : 2017-04-30 9:28 AM
Post #37611 - In reply to #37610

I agree with Jeff that the Festool with its track gives excellent results. And I'm a bit puzzled with a veneer "shooting board." My understanding of shooting boards for solid lumber is that the plane follows a perfectly straight edge (a reference edge) milled into the shooting board, the piece is incrementally eased over that perfectly straight edge and thin shavings removed until the edge of the board matches the reference edge of the shooting board.

For me, jointing the edges of a stack of veneer leaves is different from a true shooting board. The top and bottom "trap boards" in which the stack of veneer is clamped is used only to hold the leaves tight against one another, with no more than 1/8" exposed, not to provide a reference straight edge. I count on the #8 plane itself to provide the reference straight edge, just as one does when shooting the edge of a board too long for a shooting board. I have a #62, but expect the longer #8 will produce a straighter jointed edge because of its longer length.

Last week I had to prepare 53" leaves of 7" wide rift white oak veneer for taping into sheets 6 leaves wide. Trimming with the Festool and track was challenging as my track is only 52" long and there was not a couple hundred dollars in the budget for a longer track. Working carefully and pulling the saw back along the track produced very straight edges with minimal tearout of the difficult grain. Seven or eight light cuts with a #8 yielded perfect edges. During taping I found one seam with a slight bit missing - wouldn't have noticed but for the blue tape on the glue side. I cut a tiny sliver of matching grain and used the repair technique shown by Paul Schurch on one of his videos. I wasn't troubled because wood is a natural product, repairs are sometimes needed when working with solid wood, and raw veneer is solid wood.


 
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Michael O. Moore

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Joined: 2014-12-05
Location: Merrimac, MA

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Subject : RE: Jointing Edges on Long Pieces of Veneer
Posted : 2017-04-30 10:02 AM
Post #37612 - In reply to #37562

Craig, you are saying the Festool didn’t work for you? What happened?

I have used a hand plane and router for jointing edges for a long time. And those work well. For a recent job, however, I had to make a lot of long joints for an office project. Mostly because of opinions here and by Schurch, I decided to try the Festool track saw with a sacrificial board underneath. Worked well pulling the saw backwards and it was a time saver.


 
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Craig Mascolo

Posts: 7

Joined: 2010-01-13

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Subject : RE: Jointing Edges on Long Pieces of Veneer
Posted : 2017-06-05 6:46 PM
Post #37632 - In reply to #37612

Michael, I don't own a Festool track saw, so it wasn't an option for me. I resorted to old tried and true methods which have worked for me in the past on shorter lengths. I am amazed, however, that others are able to get clean edges and tight joints using a power tool alone(Festool).


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