Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-02-12 2:48 PM
8 replies, 3830 viewings

 
back
Navigate threads:
< Previous Thread :: Next Thread >
 
^ Top
Doug Rice

Posts: 2

Joined: 2013-11-08
Location: Indy

User Profile
 
Subject : Two-Ply Question
Posted : 2014-12-29 5:23 AM
Post #37193

Hi All,
I will be vacuum pressing pelin burl with a backing of mahogany, and using Unbind 800 onto MDF (or maybe Baltic birch plywood.) Does it matter whether I make a separate two-ply, and then adhere that to the substrate, or put the mahogany onto the substrate, and the next day glue the burl to that?

Thanks!
Doug


 
^ Top
Darryl Keil

Posts: 1454

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Two-Ply Question
Posted : 2014-12-29 1:32 PM
Post #37194 - In reply to #37193

You can do it either way but there is an advantage to making the two ply first. Once you make a two ply you can always repair any spots that might have poor adhesion from the back side. This means no cuts or incisions on the face veneer.


 
^ Top
Aaron Paris

Posts: 55

Joined: 2014-11-28

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Two-Ply Question
Posted : 2014-12-31 9:23 AM
Post #37195 - In reply to #37193

Why are you using a two ply in this situation? I have never used the two ply method other than with crotches on a curve. To me if your substrate is sound ( mdf ) why the extra labor?


 
^ Top
Doug Rice

Posts: 2

Joined: 2013-11-08
Location: Indy

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Two-Ply Question
Posted : 2015-01-02 9:50 AM
Post #37197 - In reply to #37195

Thanks Darryl and Aaron.
Darryl - That's a good point, which I had not thought of.
Aaron - I have never used burl before, and I thought two-ply was the usual way.



 
^ Top
Enrico Konig

Posts: 74

Joined: 2006-01-06
Location: Vancouver, BC

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Two-Ply Question
Posted : 2015-01-02 10:24 AM
Post #37198 - In reply to #37197

I often use 2-ply, usually to ensure show veneer grain is going 90 degrees to layer beneath it, i.e. when substrate grain is going same direction as face veneer. Also with unstable cuts, such as burls. Or when using mdf, as it seems to me the bond of wood to wood (face veneer to backer veneer) is much sounder than veneer to mdf. But I've had issues a few times with mdf being delaminated by the wood movement of veneer, so generally I now avoid mdf altogether (even if those problems were because of faulty mdf, i.e. not enough resin in the mdf). Actual wood glued to actual wood is always going to be a better bond, imo.

And having used 2-ply extensively now, 2-ply really seems like it is better quality than single ply, especially with unstable cuts of wood like birdseye maple or burls, for example.

I've always glued the 2-ply first before applying to substrate. Partly habit, but also because I think it's easier to ensure a perfect bond between the 2 layers of veneer before applying to substrate. But I can see advantages to doing it the other way too.




 
^ Top
Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Two-Ply Question
Posted : 2015-01-02 7:30 PM
Post #37199 - In reply to #37193

When veneering both sides of a piece with well behaved flat or quarter sliced veneer, I'll just glue a single ply to each side. Based on suggestions received on this forum some time ago, when using birds eye maple (pips may want to pop out on the glue side), making a starburst (grain not all in the same direction), an involved marquetry piece, or even a simpler marquetry with cross grain, I'll use a two ply on both sides of the piece. Flat cut maple, poplar, and mahogany all are more convenient for the lower layer because fewer leaves are needed to create a wider (assembled) sheet and they are less expensive.


 
^ Top
Aaron Paris

Posts: 55

Joined: 2014-11-28

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Two-Ply Question
Posted : 2015-01-06 12:15 PM
Post #37204 - In reply to #37199

Hi Don. What substrate do you use? Baltic birch was mentioned earlier. I have also heard of people using appleply. When using a two ply is the movement of the substrate veneers then eliminated? I guess this why I have always used mdf. But this forum has brought me new knowledge so I'm eager to learn what I can. Thanks Aaron


 
^ Top
Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Two-Ply Question
Posted : 2015-01-06 6:55 PM
Post #37206 - In reply to #37204

The earlier comment in this thread about MDF delaminating has piqued my curiosity, so I'm not sure right now about it as a substrate. In the past my preferred substrate was MDF because of its uniformity and flatness, unless the substrate had to hold hinge or other screws, in which case I used Baltic birch plywood. I have no experience with appleply, and not even sure how it's spelled.

Your comment about substrate veneers was puzzling unless you were referring to the layers of plywood. I don't think seasonal expansion and contraction of good quality plywood is possible - the alternating directions of the laminations make seasonal movement impossible.

Almost every face sheet of Baltic birch plywood I've seen in the last few years has football patches, which theoretically could show through a single layer of veneer - another reason to consider making two ply. But both sides of the substrate should be treated the same, so if one side gets a two ply for whatever reason the other side should also.


 
^ Top
Aaron Paris

Posts: 55

Joined: 2014-11-28

User Profile
 
Subject : RE: Two-Ply Question
Posted : 2015-01-06 7:31 PM
Post #37207 - In reply to #37206

I too was concerned about the delaminating issue and yes I was referring to the plywood layers. I also have concerns about the Baltic delaminating. All the Baltic I get is used for drawers and it always seems to be twisted or bowed in one way or another so that's why I can't justify using it for veneering. I do see some of the advantages though. Thanks for the reply Don.


back
Navigate threads:
< Previous Thread :: Next Thread >

Legend      Notification  
Administrator
Forum Moderator
Registered User
Unregistered User
Toggle e-mail notification


Logo by MAZY
Running MegaBBS ASP Forum Software v1.5.14b public beta