Darryl Keil Last Activity 2026-01-12 8:29 AM
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Dolly Spragins

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Joined: 2008-01-19
Location: Chicago

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Subject : Veneer Flattener Recipe
Posted : 2008-01-19 10:38 AM
Post #34281

I understand Darryl that you have a recipe for glue size somewhere on this forum, but I haven't found it! I have researched in several books, but the quantities of water and glue vary so much.....I got worried.
Some say the ratio of water to pva glue should be 10 to 1..Others say 2 to 1. Can you tell me what your recipe is?
I worry about the pva glue and chattoyance, or even cloudiness when finishing. Is this an issue?
And I guess the glycerin is not a factor in gluing or finishing?
Thanks!

Dolly




 
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: Veneer Flattener Recipe
Posted : 2008-01-19 7:31 PM
Post #34282 - In reply to #34281

The following is a compilation of discussion and information from this forum and other sources:

Veneer should be flattened whenever it is buckled, and even when seams are hard to tape because of light curling.

Make sure that consecutive numbering of the sheets of veneer is not lost during the flattening process.

As an alternative to a commercial flattening solution, one can mix together:
2 parts white or yellow glue
3 parts water
1 part pure glycerin (usually obtainable from a pharmacy)
1 part denatured alcohol

One approach is to apply flattening solution to both sides of the veneer liberally. Simplest applicator is 3” or 4” foam brush. Let soak for a minute or two. Place 2-3 layers of newspaper on the table. On top of this place a layer of fiberglass window screen, the soaked veneer, another layer of fiberglass window screen, and 2-3 layers of newspaper. Continue by adding more screen, veneer, screen, newspaper, stacking as high as needed. Flip each piece of veneer end for end so the wavy parts cancel each other out. Place this "sandwich" in the vacuum press with bottom and top cauls (1/4" minimum.) and apply full vacuum pressure. Change the newspaper 3 times the first day and leave under full vacuum pressure overnight. After being in the vacuum press overnight the fiberglass window screen is no longer needed as the veneer has dried sufficiently so that it will not stick to the newspaper. Change the newspaper 3 times the second day but do not put the sandwich in the press, just place weight on top of the top caul to hold the stack down. On the third day the veneer should be ready to use. Best to confirm with a pin type moisture meter that the veneer is dry.

As an alternative to soaking the buckled veneer with flattening solution, lightly mist on each side with flattening solution. Stand the veneer on edge out of bright sunlight, allowing air to circulate around both side, for 20 minutes. The veneer should be flexible enough to begin flattening. Flip each piece of veneer end for end so the wavy parts cancel each other out. Place the stack between cauls and gradually increase pressure until the veneer is flat. Leave for about eight hours. Then build a stack alternating a couple sheets of unprinted newspaper (or other absorbent paper) and veneer. Place this “sandwich” in the vacuum press with bottom and top cauls (1/4” minimum) and apply full vacuum pressure. Change the paper every few hours until the veneer is dry, which may take up to five changes over a few days. Best to confirm with a pin type moisture meter that the veneer is dry.

The veneer will stay flat for months provided it is stored flat with light applied pressure. Newspaper between the sheets is no longer needed.

Local pharmacies often carry smaller quantities of glycerin, and might be able to order gallons.

Hope it helps.


 
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Darryl Keil

Posts: 1456

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: Veneer Flattener Recipe
Posted : 2008-01-19 8:45 PM
Post #34283 - In reply to #34281

Dolly,

Chatoyance? You got me on this word. Had to go look it up. Now I know a new word. It did appear that chatoyance only has one t as far as I could tell.

The formula that have used for years, Don posted before I got to it.

I have never had the chatoyance, what a feeling using such a cool word, compromised in any way. Doesn't affect stain color either, if you're staining.

The glycerin doesn't affect the glue bond either.

Do a test though to see for yourself.

Darryl


 
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Dolly Spragins

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Joined: 2008-01-19
Location: Chicago

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Subject : RE: Veneer Flattener Recipe
Posted : 2008-01-21 11:12 AM
Post #34295 - In reply to #34283

I had to use a dictionary to spell chattoyance too. And I got 2 T's. Microsoft spelling check thinks I mean flamboyance.
It means depth, curl, the je ne sais quoi of curly or figured wood.

THANKS FOR THE RECIPE!


 
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ckurak

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Joined: 2006-10-28
Location: Florida

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Subject : RE: Veneer Flattener Recipe
Posted : 2008-01-21 2:58 PM
Post #34296 - In reply to #34295

Dolly and Darryl,

Wikipedia has it spelled both ways, one and two T's. However, the double-T version I found was translated from the Dutch version. The version I first found was:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chatoyancy

Paragraph 3 in the link refers to chatoyance in woodworking.

I am currently working on a project with curly maple veneer on the slab doors. Hopefully I will be able to achieve this "chatoyance" on the finished project. The sample board looks ok.

Charles


 
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Don Stephan

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Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: Veneer Flattener Recipe
Posted : 2008-01-20 10:19 AM
Post #34284 - In reply to #34281

Forgot to mention a learning experience I had a couple years ago. I would strongly suggest getting a moisture meter and using it when flattening veneer. Check the moisture level of the veneer before starting, and continue the drying process until the moisture returns to that level. If using paper and mechanical pressure, three days won't necessarily dry the veneer to its prior level. No experience using vacuum bag to dry.


 
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Bob Yeager

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Joined: 2007-04-29
Location: Fresno, CA

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Subject : RE: Veneer Flattener Recipe
Posted : 2008-01-26 5:51 PM
Post #34326 - In reply to #34284

What would be an acceptable "dry" reading with a pin type meter?

Also...I haven't seen this recipe before for a flattening solution...just curious about the glue...my experience has always been that the glue seals the pores and prevent stain from penetrating the wood...even small amounts on fingers causing problems with finish work. Comments??

Bob


 
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Darryl Keil

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Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: Veneer Flattener Recipe
Posted : 2008-01-26 8:28 PM
Post #34327 - In reply to #34326

Bob,

Because the glue is so diluted down it does not affect stain or finish. I was initially concerned about this myself so I flattened some maple veneer, then glued it beside some unflattened maple, then stained them both with a dark walnut stain. There was no difference in how the stain took. I did sand both veneers equally as I normally would before staining.

Darryl


 
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Bob Yeager

Posts: 11

Joined: 2007-04-29
Location: Fresno, CA

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Subject : RE: Veneer Flattener Recipe
Posted : 2008-01-28 8:24 PM
Post #34340 - In reply to #34327

Interesting recipe...I'll have to give it a try...I have really badly buckled crotch I would like to salvage/save.

Bob


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