Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-09-09 11:09 AM
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EvanL

Posts: 1

Joined: 2012-03-02
Location: raleigh, nc

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Subject : veneering over solid wood tabletop
Posted : 2012-03-02 12:25 PM
Post #36593
I'm about to glue four bookmatched sheets of flat cut walnut veneer in parallel grain to both sides of a 42" by 108" solid 7 board flat cut walnut tabletop. Do I need to - or should I avoid - crossband this veneer first? Is there a more preferable glue for me to use? Thanks for your advice and sponsoring this forum.
Evan


 
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Steven Kenzer

Posts: 57

Joined: 2008-07-16
Location: Putney, VT

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Subject : RE: veneering over solid wood tabletop
Posted : 2012-03-11 9:20 AM
Post #36595 - In reply to #36593
Evan, I can't imagine anyone on this forum would tell you that's a good thing to do. A solid wood substrate of that size has considerable seasonal movement. Once that movement starts occurring, the veneer will crack, lift and whatever. You would be much better off using a stable substrate, such as mdf or particleboard, then banding with solid. Good luck.


 
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Enrico Konig

Posts: 74

Joined: 2006-01-06
Location: Vancouver, BC

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Subject : RE: veneering over solid wood tabletop
Posted : 2012-03-12 10:11 AM
Post #36596 - In reply to #36595
Shouldn't the veneer move seasonally with the wood, since they are identical cuts on identical species? As long as the grain on both go the same way. Cross-banding the veneer would be a mistake though, in my opinion, because of that. And one would have to worry about the joints in the walnut substrate transferring through to the surface of the veneer. I would think that could be minimized by gluing up the solid wood substrate too with a urea resin glue.


 
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Darryl Keil

Posts: 1455

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: veneering over solid wood tabletop
Posted : 2012-03-12 8:29 PM
Post #36597 - In reply to #36593
Well, I guess I'm going to be that someone that says its perfectly fine to veneer over solid with the grain of the veneer going the same way. In fact its the only way I would do it. Because the veneer is just skinny solid wood it will expand and contract just like the solid except with less power, they will both move together.

Steve, does this make sense to you?

Darryl Keil


 
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: veneering over solid wood tabletop
Posted : 2012-03-14 6:59 AM
Post #36598 - In reply to #36597
Been waiting for your reply DK. It seemed intuitive that same species/same direction veneer over solid wood would normally not cause a problem, but I have no experience veneering over solid wood. Perhaps there's simply a wish to change from plain sawn to quarter sawn grain pattern, or cover poor board matches.

Recently I saw an antique fall front desk with 1/16" regular cracks in veneer every 3". Consensus was that the cracks were due to solid wood substrate movement. May have combined substrate and veneer with very different expansion/contraction rates, or substrate that had higher moisture content than the veneer with the panel was assembled.


 
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Steven Kenzer

Posts: 57

Joined: 2008-07-16
Location: Putney, VT

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Subject : RE: veneering over solid wood tabletop
Posted : 2012-03-15 8:04 PM
Post #36602 - In reply to #36597
I guess I spoke too soon. I am curious though, does anyone have any experience doing this....some years of use to back it up? I do understand the notion that veneer on solid should be fine in regards to same grain direction movement but I can't help but wonder about that amount of movement coming from a solid top that big. I have veneered over solid wood for drawer fronts with no issues, just never considered doing it at this scale. It's as if it's ingrained in my brain that it's a "no no" but, with all the respect I have for you guys, it must be time to rethink this. But ok, here's a question for the forum....if you have a taped up panel of veneer, let's say it's 36" wide x 6' long and you place it next to a solid wood panel of 1 1/4" thick x 36" wide x 6' long....in the winter here in New England, on sticks so air gets all around....come the end of August, will they both measure the same width? If that top expands 5/16-3/8", will the sheet veneer be the exact same? Or, does the differing mass of the 2 pieces, affect the amount of movement? Thanks for the feedback...such a great forum for those interested.


 
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Enrico Konig

Posts: 74

Joined: 2006-01-06
Location: Vancouver, BC

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Subject : RE: veneering over solid wood tabletop
Posted : 2012-03-15 11:51 PM
Post #36603 - In reply to #36602
My understanding of the laws of wood movement make me think that as long as they are the same species and the same cut, they should move pretty much the same amount. Thickness should not matter.

I have done quilted western maple 1/40" over flatsawn western maple 1-3/4" thick, and the piece has done fine for 4 years now in a place with cold winters - i.e. dry winter conditions. So far no problems that I know of (at least none that I've been contacted about ... )

I have known someone to have a piece bust apart but they glued quartered mahogany - quite stable - over poplar - very unstable.


 
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craig tufankjian

Posts: 308

Joined: 2004-02-01
Location: syracuse ny 13208

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Subject : RE: veneering over solid wood tabletop
Posted : 2012-03-16 1:07 AM
Post #36604 - In reply to #36603
Not something I would attempt, not to say that's its not doable. If I could get away with adding a little thickness to the top I would press to 1/16th inch skins to both side then veneer over those. Basically turning the original top into a piece of lumber core. PVA glue on the skins to allow movement, and urea on the veneer.
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