Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-09-09 11:09 AM
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : Veneer on Table Vertical Edges
Posted : 2009-04-30 4:30 PM
Post #35381
Just wondering if everyone still comfortable using PVA when veneering the squared edge of a tabletop. The application is a baltic birch or MDF tabletop where the edge is veneered rather than covered with hardwood strip. Typical method seems to be PVA on the edge, let dry just until not tacky, then apply veneer with iron on cotton setting. PVA I don't think is as strong as urea formaldehyde, but only it and hide glue would support iron-on method; any other gluing method likely would have glue everywhere and no great way to clamp the edging in place during curing.

If veneer tabletop first out to the edge, then the PVA and edging subject to catching object slid off edge of table, but veneer on edge not likely to get glue on its surface. If veneer the edge first and then the top, the veneer on the top could catch fingernail sliding up the edge (which seems MUCH less likely than catching the exposed edge)so there seems less chance of catching and chipping veneer edge. However, the edging likely will get glue on its surface when the top and bottom are veneered.

Whichever method is used, I don't find objectionable the very fine glue line for the last applied veneer, but some might.

Would the above be the consensus? Any other techniques to recommend for say a round table 48" diameter?

Thanks.

Don


 
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craig tufankjian

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Joined: 2004-02-01
Location: syracuse ny 13208

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Subject : RE: Veneer on Table Vertical Edges
Posted : 2009-04-30 10:57 PM
Post #35382 - In reply to #35381
I guess it just a matter of personal preference. I only use the iron method when the piece of veneer is very small or I'm really pressed for time ( no pun intended).

I can't remember a time where I veneered an edge before I applied veneer to the top. But then again I usually grain match my edges and most are running vertical. if i veneer a rectangle say 24 x 16 x 1 my lay up is 26 1/2 x 18 1/2. i'll trim of 1 inch of both long sides and trim one inch off both ends , these are now my edge banding. when you follow the grain on the top it wraps right over the ends and the sides of the rectangle. give the illusion of a solid piece of wood. without the growth rings of course.

for the 48 round there is something called a "french edge" and no I didn't make that up. french edges were common on french armoires. the corner of the armoires were rounded over with a decorative bead to prevent edge damage

when your dealing with a top and edge that is veneered a french edge is ideal to add a little durability to the edge. the process is as follows;

you would veneer your top and edges, it doesn't matter what order there done it, sides first top first or visa versa. now you would rout a very small rabbit along the perimeter of the top usually 1/8 x 1/8 but no more than 1/4 x 1/4. then you would insert solid wood into the rabbit. the wood can be the same species as the veneer or you can use a contrasting wood like ebony. this egde is just a very subtle way of beefing up the edge to prevent dinging the delicate veneer edges.

I know what your thinking... hope the hell do I clamp that on to a round table. after you have routed the rabbit and prepared the wood to put in the rabbit you need one clamp.

the top will probably need three pieces of wood to go around the table. so take your first piece and set it in the rabbit, run a bar clamp across the whole top and give it a little pressure, just enough to hold the little strip in the rabbit, now procede to bend the little strip around the perimeter of the top using straping tape as your clamping device. there is very resistance on an 1/8 x 1/8 piece of wood so straping tape will hold the strip in tight to the rabbit.

after the glue has dried flush up the top and the sides , you can rout the edge with a 1/16 th inch round over or just break the edges with sand paper.

I guess no matter what way you do it it depends on what the piece is going to be used for , how much use its going to get. I don't think there is a set rule




 
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: Veneer on Table Vertical Edges
Posted : 2009-05-01 7:23 PM
Post #35385 - In reply to #35382
Craig:
I'm a bit pressed to overlook that bad pun (grins). Thanks for another informative and explanatory reply. Hope others found it equally useful.
Don


 
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craig tufankjian

Posts: 308

Joined: 2004-02-01
Location: syracuse ny 13208

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Subject : RE: Veneer on Table Vertical Edges
Posted : 2009-05-01 7:25 PM
Post #35387 - In reply to #35385
quid pro quo Don, quid pro quo...


 
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Darryl Keil

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Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: Veneer on Table Vertical Edges
Posted : 2009-05-03 10:46 AM
Post #35390 - In reply to #35381
Don,

I was going to suggest the "French edge", never heard it called that before, and then I saw Craig explained it already.

It is one of my favorite edge details and looks extremely sharp in my opinion. I like it really fine like 1/16" or 3/32". When applicable, done in ebony is really sweet.

Try it I think you'll really like it.

Darryl


 
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craig tufankjian

Posts: 308

Joined: 2004-02-01
Location: syracuse ny 13208

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Subject : RE: Veneer on Table Vertical Edges
Posted : 2009-05-03 12:47 PM
Post #35391 - In reply to #35390
The best example I could find of the "infamous french edge in use was at this link:

http://books.google.com/books?id=XwKCaFK9HIgC&pg=PA32&lpg=PA32&dq=rick+allyn&source=bl&ots=FtVyle99vk&sig=3cuDeGpG0nvNaGFe3kChUWatX7A&hl=en&ei=uMH9SfiQO4ujtgem7t2iDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#PPA38,M1


the origin of the term ... maybe here

http://books.google.com/books?id=Ouc_5WXJ7XIC&pg=PA186&lpg=PA186&dq=french+edge+woodworking+armoire&source=bl&ots=3uJjjyZnyI&sig=oSPbMiFZHOoznQ-1YTn79DRA5Ug&hl=en&ei=GsT9ScfCDsLktgeBha2SDA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#PPA186,M1



everything the french invent have to have the word "french" put in front of it... french fries, french polish, french horn, french wine, french cruller, french edge, ect...


 
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lkasdorf

Posts: 3

Joined: 2009-05-17
Location: Waterford, VA

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Subject : RE: Veneer on Table Vertical Edges
Posted : 2009-05-20 11:28 AM
Post #35433 - In reply to #35381
I'm going through the same issue. I really want to do the sides first so that the top will overlap the vertical veneer. This ends up complicating things, however in my case.

I like the idea of inlaying a little corner of solid wood, but my client doesn't want this. So I'm stuck with having to make my edge perfect and robust.

I my case, I plan to glue my edges with urea glue, clamps and cauls first, then attach top and bottom face in the vac bag.


 
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: Veneer on Table Vertical Edges
Posted : 2009-05-20 8:11 PM
Post #35435 - In reply to #35433
when I veneer sculpture display stands, I have a similar situation in that after a side is veneered the next side might "spill" some urea formaldehyde glue on the first, already applied veneer. I found that the veneer was protected, and removal of squeezeout simplified, by liberal use of veneer tape of first two inches of veneer. I leave the tape on until all surfaces skinned. Glue squeezeout tends to sit on top of the veneer tape. I also use MDF sanding block with sticky back sandpaper, 150 then 220 grit, on the surface. VERY gently sand along the overhang until flush. Some veneers with diagonal grain still may chip along the edge.
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