Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-09-09 11:09 AM
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BigRob777

Posts: 142

Joined: 2008-05-26
Location: Newark, DE

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Subject : Terminology
Posted : 2010-05-16 4:00 PM
Post #36014

I messed myself up trying to learn this vernacular on my own. I thought that backer veneer was the veneer that you put on the bottom of your substrate to balance out the top veneer. At some point, I learned about two-plying it, and applied the same term "backer veneer" to both types. What do you call the opposing veneer, on the bottom of the table, etc.?

Thanks,
Rob


 
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: Terminology
Posted : 2010-05-16 6:43 PM
Post #36015 - In reply to #36014

Rob:
I'm going to take a stab at your question, and if I'm wrong hopefully Darryl will educate both of us.
For me, backer veneer is a veneer used to balance stresses by covering secondary surfaces, such as the bottom of a tabletop and the inside of a door; and the lower layer of a two-ply. The underside of a tabletop will not regularly be seen, so the veneer used there can be featureless and even of a different color - the selection may be for ease of use (wide, flat leaves) and cost. The back side of a door will be seen when the door is opened, so the appearance of this "backer" veneer will be given more consideration, but it again may be selected more for convenience and cost than to match the front of the door.

Long ago I was told that "backer mahogany" was simply a wide leaf of mahogany. It's width meant fewer seams were needed to make a wide assembly. I'm guessing it's simply flat-sliced mahogany as opposed to quarter or other slicing methods, and without special figure such as fiddleback, plum, et cetera. It's also veneer that won't require flattening before use.

My understanding is that a tabletop or door with a relatively stable show veneer, perhaps mottled anigre on the primary surface applied directly to the substrate, might have a backer veneer on the secondary surface, again applied directly to the substrate, of perhaps plain anigre (for the door) and plain anigre or plain wide mahogany for the tabletop. If the show veneer is something relatively unstable, such as a highly figured crotch, that crotch might first become a two ply of crotch and a backer veneer. Many people would glue this two ply to the top surface of a substrate and a single backer veneer to the under surface; but if one wants the best possible balancing of stresses a second two ply, with both layers being perhaps backer mahogany, could be glued to the under surface of the substrate. In that instance, four layers of veneer would be applied to the substrate, as two two-plies, and one could call three of the four layers "backer veneer".

That's my understanding, awaiting Darryl's red pencil and grading of my report.


 
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BigRob777

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Location: Newark, DE

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Subject : RE: Terminology
Posted : 2010-05-17 1:34 PM
Post #36018 - In reply to #36015

Don,
Wow, no wonder I was confused. How is red oak for backer veneer? I bought a half dozen 3' X 8' pieces for dirt cheap.
Thanks,
Rob


 
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Don Stephan

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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: Terminology
Posted : 2010-05-17 6:47 PM
Post #36021 - In reply to #36018

"3' x 8' sheet" doesn't sound like raw veneer. I would be inclined to match materials equally when possible. Raw veneer with raw veneer, paper backed with paper backed, et cetera.

Still awaiting Darryl to grade my book report earlier post.


 
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Darryl Keil

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Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: Terminology
Posted : 2010-05-18 9:35 AM
Post #36024 - In reply to #36021

I think one of the things about these terms like "backer veneer" is that most of us have learned veneering from practical "seat of the pants" experience rather than schooling so these terms get thrown around without following a specific rule.

With that said, my understanding is that backer veneer is any veneer that will buried by another or will not be seen. So it can be the veneer on the underside of the table as well as the veneer on the back side of a two ply. I could be wrong but that's my "non-schooled" understanding.

Although any veneer can be a backer veneer its generally a veneer that runs wide and long, is cheap, flat and stable. The two most common backer veneers that fit this description are mahogany and poplar.

Don, you get an "A" simply because your willing to write such a long, through post where I'm always trying to say it as short as possible. Not a real fan of typing.

Darryl Keil


 
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BigRob777

Posts: 142

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Subject : RE: Terminology
Posted : 2010-05-18 12:43 PM
Post #36025 - In reply to #36024

Don,
There's another term I'm not 100% on "raw". These backer sheets are one ply, stitched together, to form a larger sheet. I think that they're 2nds, as there are a few splits in the stitching, but they're easily repaired. The veneer is nice and flat too. They also cost me about five bucks a sheet. I wish I had room to take them out of the box, that they're rolled up in, but that room just doesn't exist.

I also have a dozen, or more curly anigre' done the same way. I was going to replace my inside doors and veneer them, until I found out that the doors would collapse. I may still do it, but with either home made doors, or solid outside doors.

Darryl,
Thanks for the clarification. It sounds like Don was really close.

Rob


 
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BigRob777

Posts: 142

Joined: 2008-05-26
Location: Newark, DE

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Subject : RE: Terminology
Posted : 2010-05-17 2:55 PM
Post #36020 - In reply to #36015

response removed (duplicate).
Rob


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