Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-09-09 11:09 AM
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Jack Lindsey

Posts: 17

Joined: 2005-11-24
Location: Southern Oregon

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Subject : Veneering onto plywood
Posted : 2008-09-26 2:29 AM
Post #34960
I have some highly figured oak that I want to resaw into 1/16" veneers and apply them to a hardwood plywood substrate. Do I need to apply a veneer to the back of the plywood? Is 1/4" plywood ok or do I need to use thicker material?


 
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Steven Kenzer

Posts: 57

Joined: 2008-07-16
Location: Putney, VT

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Subject : RE: Veneering onto plywood
Posted : 2008-09-26 6:18 PM
Post #34965 - In reply to #34960
Jack, the "golden rule" is to always balance your substrate with veneer, top and bottom. Ideally, you should use a 1/16" backer veneer, if you're using a 1/16" face veneer. 1/4" substrate is fine, giving you a finished panel thickness of 3/8". One thing though..if you need to use hardwood plywood, be sure and cross the grain direction. Why hardwood plywood? 1/4" mdf would be better. Good luck.


 
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Jack Lindsey

Posts: 17

Joined: 2005-11-24
Location: Southern Oregon

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Subject : RE: Veneering onto plywood
Posted : 2008-09-27 1:57 AM
Post #34971 - In reply to #34965
Thanks, Steven. The 1/4" substrate will be used as panels in the doors of an entertainment unit and will be 18" wide by 56" high. I thought that plywood would be lighter in weight. The sides will be structural elements so I planned to use 3/4" plywood, again for the weight and strength advantages. What do you think? And what do you mean by "cross the grain direction"?


 
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Steven Kenzer

Posts: 57

Joined: 2008-07-16
Location: Putney, VT

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Subject : RE: Veneering onto plywood
Posted : 2008-09-27 8:37 AM
Post #34972 - In reply to #34971
Jack, I don't think weight really is an issue here (why would it be?), especially when using 1/4" mdf substrate material. If you are concerned about the 3/4" sides, mdf also come in what's known as "ultralight", which is typically about 33% lighter then standard mdf. As for "cross grain" comment......when you veneer over veneer, you should lay it 90 degrees to itself. In other words, if you use the hardwood plywood, cut it so the grain is running horizontally, then veneer over that so the face is running vertical. It's more stable that way. If you look at the layers of the hardwood plywood, you'll see they do just that..one horizontal, one vertical ,etc, etc., layers always running opposite, in grain direction, to the previous layer. This is the key to plywood's stability. Good luck.


 
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Jack Lindsey

Posts: 17

Joined: 2005-11-24
Location: Southern Oregon

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Subject : RE: Veneering onto plywood
Posted : 2008-09-28 1:51 AM
Post #34973 - In reply to #34972
The doors are pretty big so I'm concerned with the potential to sag over time, Steven. As far as crossing the grain on the veneers, is that really a concern with plywood that uses veneers that are only a couple of thousandths thick?

I cut the veneers today and discovered when I book paged them that I have an image of a long eared, long haired wolf. Beautiful!! Now I'm thinking of not using a frame, just positioning the veneers so the image is centered on the door. Would mdf still be suitable without a frame?


Thanks for your help.



 
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Don Stephan

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Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: Veneering onto plywood
Posted : 2008-09-28 2:49 PM
Post #34974 - In reply to #34973
Jack:
I've been following this discussion and am confused about a couple things.

First, I'm not sure plywood is a good choice for the frames of frame and panel doors, regardless of the joinery method. It also presents the problem of covering the exposed edges of the plywood, on the outside AND the panel side.

I'm sure MDF gets used for slab doors, especially in mass production, but it is very poor at holding screws. I've used melamine panels (plastic-coated particleboard) for many low-end cabinets, and it works fairly well with European style cup hinges, but I'd never use it with barrel hinges. It would not seem at all suitable for the frames of frame and panel doors. And its edges need to be covered.

If you are now considering slab doors with the sawn veneer, what about edging light weight MDF with say 3/4" x 3/4" hardwood and then veneering over that assembly? The exposed edges would than be hardwood either matching or contrasting with the veneer as you choose. If the doors were mounted with barrel hinges, the leafs would be mortised into hardwood and the screws also in solid wood. One must consider telegraphing of the edging-MDF seams but that is less likely if your sawn veneer is say 1/16" thick after post-pressing sanding. If weight is a concern you could use three or even four hinges on each 56" x 18" door. Again if the doors are heavy, consider a permanently attached shelf at the top and bottom of each door so the cabinet sides cannot shift over time.

It sounds like some time and material should be invested in full-sized mock-up of the doors and hinging to get a direct sense of weight and other issues.


 
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Jack Lindsey

Posts: 17

Joined: 2005-11-24
Location: Southern Oregon

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Subject : RE: Veneering onto plywood
Posted : 2008-09-29 1:58 AM
Post #34975 - In reply to #34974
Good suggestions, Don. I'd planned to use a frame around the mdf if that's what I decide to use, for the reasons you cited. As far as lightweight mdf goes, I live in a rural community a couple of hundred miles from a major city. The few suppliers we have don't know what it is much less carry it.

I like your idea of shelves at the top and bottom of the doors so I'll plan on doing that, and multiple hinges will also help. Thanks for the ideas.
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