Darryl Keil Last Activity 2026-01-12 8:29 AM
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Greg Shapland

 
Subject : Radial Match veneering
Posted : 2003-10-03 8:27 AM
Post #31014
I have several questions on radial match patterns. 1) I,m using mdf as my substrate with urea resin adhesive.Do I need to use a matching pattern on the bottom side to get a balanced sheet? Would I be better off backing my pattern first with a similar colored veneer? If so what adhesive for the veneer ply and how does this effect the balance of the sheet? 2) I laid up a 16 peice match half circle out of Fiddleback or Curly Maple(maybe someone could also explain the difference). I then cut out a small half circle from the center and put in a fire looking red Mapple burl with beautiful results, since I was cutting out the center anyway I didn't worry about the center points either being true or lining up in the center, instead lining up the grain in a bookmatch. I have new respect for the craftsmen doing full circle matches. How do you cut the veneer keeping all the points intact? How do you make sure the bookmatch grain will line up nicely? I understand the stagered sequence procedure the difficulty seems to be the grain slipping out or in as you go around the pattern keeping the points together.
Thanks in advance,


 
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Darryl Keil

Posts: 1456

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: Radial Match veneering
Posted : 2003-10-03 9:42 PM
Post #31021 - In reply to #31014
Greg,

To answer your questions

1. You do not need to match the pattern on the underside. Just be sure you use the same glue both sides. I also dont think you need to back your radial match with a backer veneer, just go straight onto the MDF.

2. Fiddleback has a very tight "wave", curly is usually more gentle or the waves are spaced further apart.

3. You keep the points from falling apart by applying veneer tape before you cut the veneer.

4. As far as lining up the grain, two things. First, be very accurate when you stack the bundle back together (like it came off the tree) when you go to make your two group cuts. If done right the grain should line up. Second,(and this applies to full circles) do not make the second cut on numbers 1,2,15,& 16, the sides that make up the half line. This way you get to slide these pieces back and forth until the grain from one half of the circle lines up with the other. Since they do not have a point at this stage you can make adjustment. Once you have a point you are locked in since all points have to meet in the middle.

Hope this helps. Radials take practice.

Sincerely
Darryl Keil


 
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Greg

 
Subject : RE: Radial Match veneering
Posted : 2003-10-04 9:50 AM
Post #31023 - In reply to #31021
Daryl,
I was kind of thinking along those lines.It's reasuring to have someone with experience verify I'm on the right track. Thanks for the advice, Greg


 
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Carl Morrell

 
Subject : RE: Radial Match veneering
Posted : 2003-10-04 10:50 AM
Post #31024 - In reply to #31014
The other trick I learned from Frank Pollaro's article in FIne Woodworking. An exceelent article.

When cutting each sector, I made a template that was just a slight angle greater than needed. For a 16 piece the angle is 22.5, make it something like 22.55. I know you can not measure that, but just make sure each sector is just slightly bigger by like 1/64 on the large end. Tape up what should add up to 90 degrees. Since each piece is just a little to big, it should be something like 90.5 degrees. Trim it back to 90.05. Now put the two 90 degree sectors together, and that should be just a little bit beyond 180. Trim that back.
Now when you join the two halves, they will tape together easily.



 
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Thomas Stender

Posts: 18

Joined: 2003-07-06
Location: NY

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Subject : RE: Radial Match veneering
Posted : 2003-10-05 12:10 PM
Post #31026 - In reply to #31014
Greg,
In response to your fiddleback/curly question, I have a slightly different answer from Darryl's. When asked about this, I always say that it's curly if you're buying it and fiddleback if you're selling it. A bit glib, I know, but the point is that it's all curly maple, and there's a wide variation of tightness in the figure of different planks. "Fiddleback" just sounds richer, more important, as if it would demand a higher price.
You don't sell any veneer, do you, Darryl?
Best,
Tom


 
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Darryl Keil

Posts: 1456

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: Radial Match veneering
Posted : 2003-10-06 8:55 AM
Post #31028 - In reply to #31026
Thomas,

Funny you should ask about selling veneer. It was Certainly Wood who told me about the Fiddleback vs Curly thing. Hmmm!


 
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Kirby Gaal

 
Subject : RE: Radial Match veneering
Posted : 2003-10-10 10:21 PM
Post #31033 - In reply to #31026
Again, in response to the fiddleback/curly question, to say they're both curly is absolutely right. The difference is that what's considered fiddleback is of the highest degree of figure for making, you guessed it, fiddlebacks. Yes, it does command the highest price, but it is the best there is. (in reference to thin lumber used for those purposes). There many levels of figure and there really can't be a totally objective point at which one changes to the other. As a matter of fact, there a many degrees of figure in any figured tree.
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