Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-09-09 11:09 AM
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Dave Carter

Posts: 15

Joined: 2012-01-25
Location: Hendersonville, NC

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Subject : Seal Coat for Veneer ?
Posted : 2012-03-01 12:58 PM
Post #36588
I have been making some samples of Red Oak (plain sawn) on Plywood using Unibond 800 and a vacuum bag. So far, I am getting too much bleed through. All samples have been made using a roller and applying the glue to the substrate. I have tried adding Blocker per specification and that has certainly helped, but not there yet. I have tried various thicknesses of glue and also various open wait times before placing the top veneer in place.
In general the bleed through has been very reduced but I would like to do better. Also, on some samples that look very good, I am worried about the bond being to thin and not reproducible by me.

I have reviewed the forum and Darrel's video #1 on flattening where he said that the formula and procedure that he uses will also reduce bleed through, so I will try it next.

As another option - my question is: Can I coat the face side of the veneer (before gluing) with either Minwax Sanding sealer or thinned (3# cut to 2# cut ) Bulls Eye Shellac? I was planning on Sanding Sealer after glue up anyway. Do you think this would help seal the Oak before glue-up? This might give me more tolerance on glue thickness.

Thanks for your thoughts.
Dave


 
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: Seal Coat for Veneer ?
Posted : 2012-03-01 7:30 PM
Post #36589 - In reply to #36588
Are you sanding before evaluating the amount of bleedthru? Is it showing up on a finish sample?

If a small ridge is formed to each side when you draw your finger through the glue on the substrate, many people feel the glue thickness is just right.


 
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Dave Carter

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Joined: 2012-01-25
Location: Hendersonville, NC

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Subject : RE: Seal Coat for Veneer ?
Posted : 2012-03-02 8:03 AM
Post #36590 - In reply to #36589
Thanks Don.
No, I have not sanded or put finish on the samples yet. But, I have looked at the shinny areas with a good 10x loop and see that the top surface grain is filled in plus some small area around them. But, now that you mention it, you are correct, I will go ahead and scrape/sand some of the samples and finish them before I make a further judgement. By the way, the last samples I made were much better.

I guess I am worried about the long term color change of the wood/finish being different then on the glue areas. I wouldn't want spots showing up later.

Thanks,
Dave




 
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Enrico Konig

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Joined: 2006-01-06
Location: Vancouver, BC

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Subject : RE: Seal Coat for Veneer ?
Posted : 2012-03-02 10:19 AM
Post #36591 - In reply to #36590
Not seeing bleed through on such an open-grained wood as oak would be much more problematic in my eyes than having it. It would indicate not enough glue. It's not the easiest to sand back but it is invisible once finish is applied. Personally I do not like the blocker precisely because I want to see that I got full glue coverage, and thus a good bond. You want the glue sucked up into the pores of the wood, locking the veneer in place.

I suppose my views are very influenced by the fact that I indeed have had issues where there was inadequate bonding and tiny bubbles later became evident. And when I say "later became evident," it was a couple of years. And impossible to fix. So I no longer see a little extra sanding of bleed through as the great pain that I once did.

Other than on open-grained woods such as oak, you should also get bleed through on any sap wood (seems to retain its moisture wicking properties even as veneer), any knots, and on curly or quilted figure. Burl woods too will (and should) have a lot of bleed through.

The great thing about urea resin glue is that it can be coloured to match the wood you are using, so that bleed through in really open-grained woods can be disguised. I have mostly found this unnecessary though.

Good luck.
Enrico


 
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Dave Carter

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Joined: 2012-01-25
Location: Hendersonville, NC

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Subject : RE: Seal Coat for Veneer ?
Posted : 2012-03-03 8:48 AM
Post #36594 - In reply to #36591
Thank you for your input Enrico. Sorry to hear that you had a problem after several years. That is just what I am trying to avoid. I want to take my time on the samples and get it right before I do this table. I agree, a little bleed through is fine but my first samples had a LOT.

In looking closer at the bleed through I am now getting, it is only in the dark areas of the veneer grain. So, I think I will buy some dark catalyst (I have medium). That way I can mix some dark and medium catalyst to get a little darker glue. I think, if anything, I would prefer to be slightly darker with the glue then lighter. Long term, I think it would show less. At this point, the medium catalyst is very slightly lighter then the dark grain before finishing. But, I will, per Don's suggestion above, get the finish on these samples first as I agree this will change the color as well.

Thanks,
Dave


 
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Dave Carter

Posts: 15

Joined: 2012-01-25
Location: Hendersonville, NC

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Subject : RE: Seal Coat for Veneer ?
Posted : 2012-05-10 3:07 PM
Post #36637 - In reply to #36594
Just a final follow-up.
My project turned out great. Once sanded, the bleed-through I had was not a problem. I can not see any spots after staining and finishing with Waterlox.

THanks everyone.
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