Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-09-09 11:09 AM
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Brad

Posts: 87

Joined: 2008-04-22

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Subject : Hot Hide Glue
Posted : 2008-11-04 7:32 PM
Post #35025
I have been having a discussion with some people starting veneering. A very highly respected member of that forum has suggested Hot Hide Glue for a Walnut Veneer project for new work. I suggested the same as Craig did to me when I was having trouble with my last project. When would you look towards this glue option? Just curious to hear your opinons for my knowledge.

by the way, could someone tell me the bond strength of Unibond 800? I was thinking of using this for my laminated cherry stair stringers (7ply 1.5x2 (wide) laminations of FAS Cherry), but couldnt seem to find much in the way of tech specs (yes, an engineering geek I be). I used epoxy for the first pair, but I ran out and it is 10d until I can get some more. Any reason not to use Uni bond here? I know, PVA will likely be fine.

Thanks


 
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: Hot Hide Glue
Posted : 2008-11-04 7:48 PM
Post #35026 - In reply to #35025
If one is experienced with veneer hammering and hot hide glue, and with the size of the veneer panel, it can be completed in the time it takes me to get out the mixing paraphenalia, materials, roller pad and frame, . . . I found, though, that there is a huge learning curve, that the process (for me) was very challenging if the panel is longer than about 18", and that seaming CAN BE A NIGHTMARE depending on the species of the veneer. The other significant challenge is that all the email partners encouraging me to try it wouldn't give a water-hide glue granules ratio that would be close to their working viscosity. Sure, hide glue is constantly getting thicker when it is on heat, but a proper ratio for fresh glue would give consistent results and give someone like me a meaningful guideline.

One tip that served me well was to make a very thin hot hide glue mix (again, no better guideline), spread a thin layer on the glue surface of your substrate to seal it and let dry overnight. Scuff sand lightly the next day and then glue your panel.

Practice, practice, practice.

Regarding your second question, don't know the number, but this use of Unibond was demonstrated in Darryl Keil's second video. Seemed to turn out well. I wouldn't use a PVA for this because it will always allow some springback after removing clamp pressure.

My two cents, which probably isn't worth that much.


 
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Paul Kierstead

Posts: 39

Joined: 2008-01-24
Location: Ottawa, ON

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Subject : RE: Hot Hide Glue
Posted : 2008-11-05 12:31 AM
Post #35027 - In reply to #35025
The learning curve, as don says, is very steep for larger panels. I've done a several smaller panels and they go very well but still fight larger ones. Large pieces of veneer can be particularly painful, since the glue will set up too quickly. Especially around here, where it ain't exactly warm in the winter (if you are the Brad I suspect you are, were are in the same city -- Ottawa). The open time in hot climates would be a lot better.

I've found hammer veneering to be rewarding and useful, but when I do a bigger panel (even moderately big), I stick it in the bag. For small box lids, etc it really is great though. Mostly I use it when a for things well under 12" wide and a single piece of veneer. Box lids, that sort of thing. If I did enough panels, I'm sure I would get good at it...


 
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Brad

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Joined: 2008-04-22

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Subject : RE: Hot Hide Glue
Posted : 2008-11-05 1:32 AM
Post #35028 - In reply to #35027
Paul, I'm on the other side of Canada and a wee bit north of Ottawa. Thks for the info. I really like the vac bag and at this point I have no plans to give it or the Unibond up. Seems like the more traditional veneer adhesive. I was a little surprised that the member suggested this to a new veneer guy, but I suppose he will learn.

Don:
As always, your two cents are worth a lot more. By the way, i did try the belt sander idea to remove some tape on one of those door panels. Worked well, but you sure do need to be careful.

I asked some woodweb pros my adhesive problem for the stair stringer, and generally got the reply, stick with PVA, you are overthinking the problem.

Thanks


 
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: Hot Hide Glue
Posted : 2008-11-05 7:35 PM
Post #35029 - In reply to #35028
Regarding the stair stringer, you might try a small sample to see if you like the results. If you are laminating an inside stringer in place, i.e. against an existing wall, any springback wouldn't be a problem because it's already in final position. In the demo on the 2nd video, it was laminated in place against a stud wall. In that situation, the drywall or other wall covering would but up against the lamination, not extend down behind it. One of the coolest features of the demo application was that it only required ONE (yep, uno, single, half a pair) clamp. The vac bag (standard length I think is up to 18'?) simply presses all the laminations tightly against each other. That one clamp, applied in about the midpoint of the lamination, simply forces the assembly back against a stud and the lamination naturally conforms to the curve described by the rest of the studs. For an outside curve, two clamps would be needed, one at each end.

Thanks for the kind words.


 
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Brad

Posts: 87

Joined: 2008-04-22

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Subject : RE: Hot Hide Glue
Posted : 2008-11-06 1:44 AM
Post #35030 - In reply to #35029
Don, my stringers are straight as an arrow made of 1.5"x2" laminations of cherry. I was yet again overthinking something. Thanks anyway. I will keep this in mind.
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