Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-02-12 2:48 PM
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Brad

Posts: 87

Joined: 2008-04-22

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Subject : Vacuum Press Edge Banding
Posted : 2008-09-02 12:53 PM
Post #34901

The rails and stiles for the doors I am building are Stave core. I wanted to edge band them (3/4" stock) with the Veneer press so I came up with the wedge in the attached pic. I have done this before with clamps, but I found even with clamps in both planes I would have some areas where the banding would not match the stave. I have not calculated the effective force upon the pieces yet, but the down force is around 3600lb given the surface area of the wedge is around 2.5"x96". Anyone else tried this? It seems to be working fairly well, but I know the effective pressure will be much less than the manufacturer recommends to develop the full bond of a PVA.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj176/Brad805/Passage%20Doors/DSC01665.jpg

Brad



 
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Darryl Keil

Posts: 1454

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: Vacuum Press Edge Banding
Posted : 2008-09-02 7:07 PM
Post #34902 - In reply to #34901

Brad,

What an interesting idea, Ive never thought of this in a bag.

One thing I would do to improve the downward pressure is to make a thick caul, 3/4" or better to go on top of the angled pressure piece, but make this caul 1" wider on each side so you would get increased downward pressure.

I also wondered, if after the vacuum reaches full pressure if you would get added benefit by taking a block of wood and a hammer and smacking the angled piece to drive it downward a little more.

Darryl Keil


 
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Brad

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Subject : RE: Vacuum Press Edge Banding
Posted : 2008-09-02 7:52 PM
Post #34904 - In reply to #34902

I have a few more staves to make so I will add a spreader to the top of the wedge and see how it works.

I helped the wedge along as the bag develops vacuum with a rubber hammer and I sprayed the wedge with a lubricant just before it goes in the bag. The one thing I noticed is the wedge is quickly is restrained by the bag going around the edges. I am curious to see if I find any glue problems as I cut the boards into their final sizes for the doors. I found one odd area where the edge banding did not sit down on the caul properly, but I think I must have had a drop of glue.

An added benefit to this is the glue squeeze out is perfectly smooth so I do not need to do a lot of cleanup before the face pieces go on.

I will eventually calculate the forces. I suspect the forces are not as large as I think as the edge pieces did not give any indication of blowing out, but then again i did screw it to the caul using screws at about 2" on center. If the forces turn out too small, I have an idea of building a hinged wedge that will use leverage to improve the clamping force.

Brad


 
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Jeff Patrick


Joined: 2004-04-15
Location: Bainbridge Island, WA

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Subject : RE: Vacuum Press Edge Banding
Posted : 2008-09-02 7:42 PM
Post #34903 - In reply to #34901

It is an interesting idea but I have to question just how effective it is. Looking at your photo, it appears that the horizontal surface being pressed by the bag is about the same area (width) as that pressing onto the edge banding. This being the case, your calculation of a total pressure of 3600 pounds is meaningless. What is important is the psi and that is still atmospheric... about 15psi. Furthermore, the wedge will reduce that about 30%. So take 15psi multiply by .707 (it looks as if the wedge is cut at 45ยบ) and you get 10.6 psi. And since this assumes no friction at the face of the wedge that pressure can be reduced even more. Nevertheless, it must be working since you don't say the edging fell off when removed from the bag.

The beauty of the vacuum bag is it's consistent pressure over a large area. Your application doesn't need this kind of pressure. You need clamps to achieve a high pressure on a small area.... or so they say. I routinely attach thin edging to panels by simply taping them in place every few inches. Thus I don't doubt for a moment that your method will work. It just seems like a lot of bother.

Jeff


 
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Steven Kenzer

Posts: 57

Joined: 2008-07-16
Location: Putney, VT

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Subject : RE: Vacuum Press Edge Banding
Posted : 2008-09-03 8:18 AM
Post #34905 - In reply to #34901

I'd have to second Jeff's comment that this seems like a lot more work then is necessary. Would it be a problem to simply place the work horizontally in a vice, apply the 3/4" edge band, heavy caul and use bar clamps every foot or so? A long micro-pin can be great on preventing any slipping. Maybe I'm missing something here.


 
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Brad

Posts: 87

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Subject : RE: Vacuum Press Edge Banding
Posted : 2008-09-03 1:25 PM
Post #34906 - In reply to #34905

Steve: Thanks for your comments as to the effective pressure. I dont dispute any of your comments and I know I am far below the recommended pressure to develop 100% bond. I would not use this technique if it were exterior doors. The main reason I opted for this is I have the vacuum bag setup permanently in a separte space and am lacking shop space. My previous staves I clamped the edge banding, but the amount of clamps (two directions) and spreaders I needed to get it all to match perfectly was a bit much. I decided i needed a glue joint cutter to speed the process up and reduce the number of clamps, but I never got around to ordering one. The caul took about 45min to build, but once it was done you can put the pieces in as fast as you spread the glue and tape them in place. I found it a lot less nuisance than using clamps. I did about 20 staves in a couple of evenings while I was working on other projects.

None of the banding has come off and i did have to use a rubber mallet to get some of them out of the bag due to glue squeeze out. I did not joint the second face of the cores before glueup and I noticed that the clamping force is not enough to make up for any minor stock imperfections.

Steve, I cannot use any pins (nor will I for other reasons) because I complete the final sizing on the shaper once it is all done.

Brad


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