Darryl Keil Last Activity 2024-10-10 3:42 PM
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RHosch

 
Subject : Veneering burls and crotches to hollow enclosures
Posted : 2005-03-29 7:23 PM
Post #32133

If this has been covered previously I apologize... didn't find it with the forum search.

I've had some luck with Unibond800 and vacuum veneering burls and crotches on flat and curved panels, but now I need to move on to hollow enclosures (speaker cabinets). Yellow glue with clamping has worked for more user-friendly veneers like Alder and Cherry, but the enclosures have a fairly tight radius around the corners (1/2" to 1" depending on location) and I'm concerned that I won't get a heavily figured veneer to bond smoothly and securely around those radii.

However, I'm obviously reluctant to put a hollow box into a bag and turn on the vacuum! I'd hate to suck all of my hard work down to a pile of broken wood.

Any suggestions for tooling designs that would promote a smooth wrap around those radiused corners using just clamps?


 
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Brian Gray

Posts: 339

Joined: 2004-01-21
Location: Sandusky, OH

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Subject : RE: Veneering burls and crotches to hollow enclosures
Posted : 2005-03-31 7:25 AM
Post #32134 - In reply to #32133

Actually, I just finished up a speaker project involving marquetry.

http://www.briangray.net/projectdetail.cfm?ProjectID=26

I built the boxes first on this project, and then pressed them in the vacuum press under low pressure so as not to crush the boxes, or cause them to bow in spots. Notice, however, that my speakers are pretty small at 11 x 7 x 11. I don't think that I could get away with this with bigger speakers.

I will be building more speakers in the future, and I don't recommend putting the boxes in the press assembled like I did. My plan next time is to press the panels flat all in one pressing, and then assemble. Even if I had existing boxes, I think that I would completely rebuild them and start from scratch.

Rather than worrying about the transition from veneer edge to veneer edge, my plan is to put hardwood strips around all the edges as you see in the photos above. It's a lot easier this way. You also wouldn't have to worry about your curves and smoothly wrapping veneer around them. You could do the transitions out of hardwood, and treat the edges however you want.

My plan for joinery is to do rabbets. I will make sure that the rabbets will be slightly smaller that the hardwood strip where the plywood ends are exposed. Then when I remove the material on all the edges to fit the hardwood strips, I will eliminate all existing exposed plywood. This allows me to press all the panels flat in one pressing. Does this make sense? Doing the joinery like this will save me a lot of time, and I can still use the advantages of the vacuum press, rather than a mechanical press, or worry about veneering the transitions from panel to panel. Let me know if this is not clear.

This is just one strategy of many....take my ideas for what they are worth.

bg



 
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Larry

 
Subject : RE: Veneering burls and crotches to hollow enclosures
Posted : 2005-03-31 8:02 AM
Post #32135 - In reply to #32133

RHosch,

Look at the equipment sold on this site and particularly at the air bladders. Placing one inside the enclosure with an access to the outside air allows you to press both sides of your shell with the same vacuum pressure -- there would be no crushing force remaining.

I've not tried using them, but I did see them in Darryl's videos (which I highly recommend); they ought to allow you to vereer your boxes after assy.

Good luck,
Larry


 
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Darryl Keil

Posts: 1453

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: Veneering burls and crotches to hollow enclosures
Posted : 2005-03-31 9:46 AM
Post #32137 - In reply to #32133

RHosch,

Lots of good advise here so I'll just add that you can definitely press your completed speakers in a vacuum press. You either need to slide temporary supports inside or use the bladder we offer.

Sincerely
Darryl Keil


 
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RHosch

 
Subject : RE: Veneering burls and crotches to hollow enclosures
Posted : 2005-03-31 4:49 PM
Post #32138 - In reply to #32137

Brian, I had thought about that but due to the nature of the speaker (an extremely powerful sub) I'm concerned about structural integrity of the joints when using hardwood strips. It could be done, though, and I'll keep it in mind as an option.

Larry, I had wondered if a bladder of some sort was available... didn't catch them on this site previously. I'll take a closer look.

Darryl, thanks! I'll look at those bladders. The enclosure is already pretty strong... it is possible that additional temporary bracing would allow vacuum without a bladder, maybe at somewhat reduced pressures. I guess I'll have to make a sacrificial enclosure for testing... its the only real way to know I suppose.




 
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Darryl Keil

Posts: 1453

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: Veneering burls and crotches to hollow enclosures
Posted : 2005-04-01 10:05 AM
Post #32139 - In reply to #32138

RHosch,

Fax me a simple drawing at 207-725-0932 of the dimensions and structure of you speaker and I will tell you what I think.

A simple test would be to put your speaker in the bag, put a straight edge on the top while holding another one on the side. As the vacuum increases see if there is any deflection. If you make it to 25HG with only a little defection you should be good. If at 15HG you have severe deflection that you'll need a bladder or more bracing. Make sure you cover the speaker holes or put that side face down on the platen. Im assuming here you already have a vacuum press.

Sincerely
Darryl Keil


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