Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-09-09 11:09 AM
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Les

 
Subject : Veneer to solid wood substrate
Posted : 2004-07-24 10:06 PM
Post #31668
Darryl

quick question. I am making some lids for boxes using 1\2" solid walnut and maple that are fairly "figure free" and want to add a burl or quilted veneer to both sides. These pieces will be no larger than 7" x 12" and most will be smaller.

If I place a veneer on both sides of the solid wood substrate, will I have any problems if I don't do a "cross band" of the veneers?

Thanks for any help.

Les


 
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Darryl Keil

Posts: 1455

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: Veneer to solid wood substrate
Posted : 2004-07-25 8:27 PM
Post #31670 - In reply to #31668
Les,

The general rule for veneering on top of solid is to run the veneer with the grain direction of the solid. With burls and highly figured woods this doesnt work so well since the burls grain direction is going every which way and doesnt move the same as the solid.

Now your pieces are rather small so the amount of movement is not that much. You may get away with gluing directly to the solid anyway but if you want to be absolutely safe I would cross band first. Without it you could get small fizzures in the burl. Now usually cross banding solid is not a good idea because the solid is going to move no matter what you do on top. Because your panels are so small you can get away with it. There isnt that much movement to be concerned in relation the the cross banding, but enough to possibly matter for the burl. If your doing quilted I would skip the cross banding. Quilted veneer has enough grain direction to work with the solid.

These are my thoughts.

Sincerely
Darryl Keil


 
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Les

 
Subject : RE: Veneer to solid wood substrate
Posted : 2004-07-25 9:04 PM
Post #31671 - In reply to #31670
Thanks Darryl.

You confirmed my thoughts. I appreciate all you help.

Les


 
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Brian Gray

Posts: 339

Joined: 2004-01-21
Location: Sandusky, OH

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Subject : Another Question along these lines....
Posted : 2004-07-25 10:37 PM
Post #31672 - In reply to #31671
Darryl,

When veneering with a solid substrate, is it best to find a quartersawn board?

I know that quartersawn will resist warpage more, but will it resist lateral movement more? Less? Same?

(going to go look in hoadley's book.....see if I can find the answer...)



 
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Darryl Keil

Posts: 1455

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: Another Question along these lines....
Posted : 2004-07-26 9:20 AM
Post #31673 - In reply to #31672
Brian,

Without a doubt, quarter sawn wood has less lateral movement than plain sliced. Mahogany cut like this is especially stable. I personally dont think it matters when veneering over solid to find quater sawn boards, mainly because the veneer will move with the wood as well. Now if you were veneering a highly figured wood on top of solid and the piece was too wide to successfully cross band, then quarter sawn solid would definitely help.

Sincerely
Darryl Keil

Sincerely
Darryl Keil


 
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Thomas Stender

Posts: 18

Joined: 2003-07-06
Location: NY

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Subject : RE: Veneer to solid wood substrate
Posted : 2004-07-29 4:29 PM
Post #31680 - In reply to #31670
Daryl,
I have to disagree about crossbanding solids, at least to this extent:
Seasonal expansion and contraction (5% moisture content change) will amount to 1/8" in 7" wide flat sawn hard maple (3/32" in walnut)(about half as much in quartersawn material). This is a considerable difference that would, over time, tear a glue joint apart.
A finish such as laquer or varnish would mitigate the change somewhat, but less near the ends of the board. At the end of this spectrum, gluing and finishing with epoxy would likely tame the movement almost entirely.
What's the point? That there aren't any easy answers to the question. Burls glued up both with and without crossbanding have lasted for decades, while others of both types have failed.
But let's not underestimate the amount that wood moves across the grain, especially when flat sawn.
Best,
Tom
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