Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-09-09 11:09 AM
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Michael Lomax

Posts: 6

Joined: 2004-04-30

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Subject : adhesive for a two ply veneer
Posted : 2004-05-27 4:03 PM
Post #31567


I want to lay up a fancy face and then create a two ply veneer with it before I lay the two ply down on a curved substrate. What adhesive would be recommended between the fancy face and the backer so that it will readily flex around the curved substrate later?

Lomax



 
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Darryl Keil

Posts: 1455

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: adhesive for a two ply veneer
Posted : 2004-05-28 9:55 AM
Post #31568 - In reply to #31567

Michael,

Well, the amount of flex you need depends on the tightness of the radius. Yellow glue is good for flex and urea glue for rigidity, especially on a fancy face. Since I like the final rigidity of urea there is a way to get both with this glue. The way I get both is to press up the two ply in the morning and then late in the afternoon when the glue is set but not rigid yet, I press the two ply to the curved panel. If you wait until the next day a urea pressed two ply may be too rigid for tight radiuses. If your radius is gentle it wont matter.

Sincerely
Darryl Keil


 
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Michael Lomax

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Joined: 2004-04-30

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Subject : RE: adhesive for a two ply veneer
Posted : 2004-05-28 6:01 PM
Post #31569 - In reply to #31568


Thanks for the idea of doing the glue-up before the glue goes ridgid. I will see if I can do this in such a time frame.

Where does a radius go from gentle to tight? I would guess that the columns I am planning are doing are tight at a 12 inch diamter. Is this tight?

Michael Lomax



 
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Keith Newton

Posts: 4

Joined: 2004-05-25
Location: Little Rock, Arkansas

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Subject : RE: adhesive for a two ply veneer
Posted : 2004-05-29 10:26 PM
Post #31570 - In reply to #31569

Miahael,
That depends a lot on your choice of veneer. there are lots of variables that factor into this. Some woods are very flexible, and others are quite brittle. If you already have the veneers, or any veneers test to see how far you can bend them before they break.

Daryl's sugestion is a good one, another tip would be to use a platen of something like plastic laminate, or backer sheet. I try to match the stifness relative to the bending radius. if some of your scrim face parts have their grain across the bending axis, the corners may wont to lift, this will give more sq. inches of pressure to those spots. If you don't have enough vacuum to pull the platen down all of the way to the ends, try to have a board/caul and clamp ready to apply to the outside of the bag.
Also I like to push the platen down ahead of the vacuum drawing it to keep the bag from getting sucked under the end of the platten, and veneer.
Also for the second ply make sure that the grain is running with the axis of the cylinder, or column, and I would choose a wood that is light in density, and good flexiblilty on that plane. If it has a low crush factor, then maybe it won't stress the first glueline, and pull apart the scrim. I am planning on hosting a workshop on this topic in a couple of months.
Let us know how this turns out, and good luck,


 
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Brian Gray

Posts: 339

Joined: 2004-01-21
Location: Sandusky, OH

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Subject : RE: adhesive for a two ply veneer
Posted : 2004-05-30 8:01 AM
Post #31571 - In reply to #31570

Michael,

Also, don't forget that typically, veneer comes off the cutter with the ability to bend one way without fraying or showing cracks, but the other way will show the cracks.

It's just the nature of the cutting process....make sure the test each piece of veneer to see which side would be best to make as the outer side.

my 2 cents

bg


 
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Earl

Posts: 75

Joined: 2003-12-04
Location: Pensacola FL

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Subject : RE: adhesive for a two ply veneer
Posted : 2004-05-30 1:33 PM
Post #31572 - In reply to #31569

Unless your face is very fragile and/or brittle. I would glue up the 12" in 2 sessions. One, glue the backer up then glue face on after 1st has setup hard. 12" is not that tight unless using a fragile veneer. Also, the 2 ply will make it more difficult to wrap around, even with a flexible glue line. With a 12" dia. the two plies will be at slightly different radii causing them to want to slip against each other when glueing up. With a 2 ply one has to stretch and one has to compress, when bending around any radius.


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