Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-09-09 11:09 AM
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Kevin Jenness

Posts: 13

Joined: 2007-12-04

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Subject : surface roughness on 6 month old table
Posted : 2013-02-01 3:24 PM
Post #36838

I am writing to ask for advice on repairing a conference table that has developed roughness on its surface.The table is 2"x48"x144", paperbacked quartersawn maple over a core of 1/2"mdf and 1" Plascore honeycomb, bonded with epoxy rolled onto both substrate and veneer and pressed in a vacuum bag. The finish is M.L.Campbell Enviromax.The paper/mdf bond seems fine, no hollow spots or lifting at the edges were found. There is widespread roughness in the finish and/or veneer.There is some ridging or uplift at the veneer seams in places, but a lot of roughness elsewhere, aligned with the long grain. The greatest amount of ridging is on the order of .001" to .002". There is a sunburst inlay in beech and cherry at the table's center that shows no problems despite its being made of thicker material than the surrounding veneer. There is no problem on the underside of the table. I noticed that the finish seemed to have been built up less on the bottom than the top, but saw no cupping or bowing. The table is part of a larger job including a 30"x80" coffee table of similar construction, two large curved workstations and several other cabinets, all clad in the same flitch laid up on paper backing. There are no similar problems in any of the other pieces. The project was built in the summer in a non climate controlled shop and is in a climate controlled office. I don't know the humidity level currently, but for sure it is lower than the shop at the time of construction. The main difference I can see between the table and the rest of the work is that it was laid up with epoxy rather than a pva glue, and it does get some direct sunlight through the day. I am leaning toward the idea that the finish is allowing sunlight to get through and affect the veneer,paper bond. It is possible that there is excess finish thickness causing cracking in the finish, but there definitely is movement in the veneer as well. I don't know the characteristics of the paper/veneer adhesive, though I have been told it is heat activated and comes to the fabricator already on the paper. The total thickness of the sheets is about.020", half veneer and half paper. I don't believe that the veneer leaves were glued edge to edge, but rather were taped, as the laidup panels from the same source had some tape residue in spots.

I'm leaning toward stripping the table, possibly laying on a washcoat of epoxy, and respraying with a more uv resistant finish. Perhaps we can get the client to keep the blinds down when the conference room is not in use.
Rebuilding the table is not an attractive option, but would be preferable to refinishing and failing to get a better result. I'm not sure I understand why this problem is happening, and that is crucial to any strategy for resolving it. Any comments or experience you have had would be most appreciated.



 
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: surface roughness on 6 month old table
Posted : 2013-02-01 6:40 PM
Post #36839 - In reply to #36838

Kevin:

Some additional information may be helpful. First, in what part of the country was the veneering done, and what were the weather conditions (approx) at that time? Sounds like a very large table for epoxy, is there a chance the epoxy started curing before the top was under vacuum? Is there a chance the finish was applied before the epoxy was fully cured? Were there any additional elements in the finish schedule besides the Enviromax?


 
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Kevin Jenness

Posts: 13

Joined: 2007-12-04

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Subject : RE: surface roughness on 6 month old table
Posted : 2013-02-02 6:28 AM
Post #36841 - In reply to #36839

Don,

Vermont, July, humid, as stated the shop is not climate controlled. It is a large table , thus west system was used for its long working time. The piece was under pressure within 35 minutes, so there was not a problem there. There is no apparent delamination between the paper and mdf.The epoxy cured for at least a week prior to finish while the center medallion was inlaid. I am not sure of the complete finish schedule, will check with our finisher and post the details. I can imagine that the substrate may have shrunk somewhat, putting the surface into compression, but nearby cabinet doors with the same crossgrain dimension are showing no issues.


 
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Darryl Keil

Posts: 1455

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: surface roughness on 6 month old table
Posted : 2013-02-05 2:59 PM
Post #36842 - In reply to #36841

Kevin,

As Enrico mention, I would recommend the epoxy skim coat option as a solution. It will lock up the veneer and developing fissures as well and fill any cracks. Once you sand everything flat you should not have a problem in the future. This of course depends on the bond between the veneer and paper backing to be stable.

This grain fissuring issue with paper backed veneer comes up from time to time. I think its got to do with the glue that used but I'm no expert on paper backed manufacturing processes.

Darryl Keil


 
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Enrico Konig

Posts: 74

Joined: 2006-01-06
Location: Vancouver, BC

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Subject : RE: surface roughness on 6 month old table
Posted : 2013-02-01 7:01 PM
Post #36840 - In reply to #36838

After a panicked phone consultation with the ever-helpful Darryl Keil, I've skim-coated epoxy over a table surface in order to fill checking in the veneer surface, after stripping finish off. The idea being to permanently halt checking as well as to repair existing surface. I now do this procedure to many projects before finishing, particularly with species prone to movement. But this will not repair any underlying issues with bond between the substrate/paperback and the surface veneer.

If you are having issues after only 6 months, I'd probably consider stripping veneer off and doing that part over. Nothing worse, as you point out, than doing an already extensive fix but finding out underlying issues still persist. Sounds to me like a problem with bond between paper and veneer.

Good luck
Enrico


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