Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-09-09 11:09 AM
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bbhack

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Joined: 2014-12-01
Location: Memphis

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Subject : Rigid glue line and seasonal movement.
Posted : 2014-12-02 11:52 AM
Post #37185

I'm curious if there is a adverse interaction of rigid glue lines and seasonal wood movement in thick veneer lamination or when solid wood is used as a substrate for veneering. With softer PVA glues there is enough flexibility that the glue line might accommodate repeated dimensional changes without weakening the bond significantly. With harder PVAs, like Unibond One, urea or resorcinol glues it seems that the rigid glue line would resist seasonal movement to a greater extent, stressing the bond more and weakening it over time. My experience is that this isn't an issue short term, i.e. a few years. Is there any indication that this is a problem long term, say a several decades?


 
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Don Stephan

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Subject : RE: Rigid glue line and seasonal movement.
Posted : 2014-12-03 7:10 PM
Post #37186 - In reply to #37185

First, what is meant by "thick veneer lamination?" Are you gluing together several layers of the same species of wood with the grain running in the same direction? An example would be resawing a blank into say 3/32" thick strips and then gluing back together around a bent form, when steam bending is not an option.

In the second situation, will the grain direction of all of the veneer match that of the solid wood substrate, or will at least some of the veneer be cross grain to the solid wood substrate?


 
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bbhack

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Subject : RE: Rigid glue line and seasonal movement.
Posted : 2014-12-06 10:00 AM
Post #37187 - In reply to #37186

That wasn't very clear was it. And maybe I am over thinking this. But:

By thick veneer I mean 1/8-3/16" thicknesses resawn from 8-12" wide stock. By lamination I mean face gluing a number of these to a total thickness of 1/2-1" usually on a curved form for things like curved drawer fronts. I usually make flat panels with a solid core, either solid wood or plywood depending on the panel size and joinery. The grain of all layers is parallel, no cross banding. Because of the width of the panels, stock is almost always plain sawn so seasonal movement is going to mostly be across the width, which can be 1/4" for the domestic species I use.

I am assuming that no glue line can restrain wood movement. As I said, short term the bonds appear to be stable. But one might think that much movement, repeated annually over a long period of time would exert tremendous stress on a rigid glue line. I suppose whether or not and when the bond will eventually fail when is speculative at this point. Perhaps too much so. But I'm curious about whether a more flexible glue like the PVAs would be the better choice for the applications I described.




 
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Don Stephan

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Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: Rigid glue line and seasonal movement.
Posted : 2014-12-06 6:30 PM
Post #37188 - In reply to #37187

For bent laminations, you've posed an interesting question I've never noticed. When I make bent laminations I prefer to use a rigid glue such as epoxy or plastic resin so that the lamination will match the bent form after the glue has cured. All of the layers of wood will move the same seasonally, but you are correct that the rigid glue lines will be trying to oppose that seasonal movement. I will be very interested to see others' thoughts.


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