Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-09-09 11:09 AM
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Phil

Posts: 1

Joined: 2006-12-03

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Subject : veneering very difficult to clamp and vac-bag piece-
Posted : 2006-12-03 12:03 PM
Post #33472

I bought a system (Blue Pump with Poly Bag) from DK, and have used it for Vac-Bag veneering flat panels as well as free-form shapes. For this project, the areas are narrow and very difficult to clamp; and I think very difficult to Vac-Bag. The following is not my project but will accurately and simply describe what I am trying to do:
Let’s say I am trying to veneer (very thin 1/42” curly veneer) all six sides of a shelf which is 1" by 12" by 12"-but the edges are arc s with the "center" of each edge recessed toward the center (the corners of the edges “stick” out---so clamping would be very difficult). Both 12" by 12" areas (the top and bottom) are veneered using the Vac-Bag system and Unibond800 glue-worked great. Now I am trying to veneer the edges. My worries with using the Vac-Bag are:
1. Getting the Unibond800 squeeze-out all over the finished veneered areas—can Blue Tape be used to cover the already veneered areas? Or something else can be done?
2. I am also concerned about adequate overhang---and veneer shifting—how “tight” can
one “tape” the veneer in place?
3. How long can I keep it in the Vac-Bag and have the veneer “stick firmly” but still enable me to remove the broken-overhang and remove the glue squeeze-out? (the tape idea?)

Other options would be using (I can just hear the yells…) contact---cement….like the Weldbond Original Contact Cement….In reality, four pieces are about 1 ½” by 16” or so, and four pieces are similar to 20” diameter discs which are 2” wide…..

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Phil




 
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Brian Gray

Posts: 339

Joined: 2004-01-21
Location: Sandusky, OH

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Subject : RE: veneering very difficult to clamp and vac-bag piece-
Posted : 2006-12-04 11:36 AM
Post #33473 - In reply to #33472

I probably wouldn't use the bag for the edges.

Why not make a caul that matches the "S" curve, and use that with manual clamps?


 
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: veneering very difficult to clamp and vac-bag piece-
Posted : 2006-12-05 8:09 PM
Post #33476 - In reply to #33472

A vacuum bag can be used to press vertically, but allowance must be made so that the bag presses fully and evenly against the vertical edges. When the area of the bag falling down the side of the material being pressed meets the platen, there is always a "dead area" where the bag makes the transition from vertical to horizontal. This dead area will not apply full and even pressure against the bottom of the vertical surface, so some steps must be taken to elevate the vertical edge being pressed so that it does not fall within this dead area. (Darryl explains this concept much better than I.)
1. Cut a couple "spacers" from 1/4" plywood or MDF matching the shape of the veneered piece but about 3/16" narrower.
2. Cut a third "spacer" from the 1/4" sheet the same size as the piece being veneered.
3. Wrap these spacers in 4 mil or so plastic and tape the edges near the middle of one of the faces. (The plastic will keep the glue from sticking to the spacers.)
4. Cut your edge veneers about 1/2" wider than the piece being veneered.
5. Using clear packing tape, tape together across the edges NOT being veneered a 3 piece sandwich of the first two spacers and the piece being veneered, with the latter in the middle. I use packing tape because it seemed that blue masking tape, which is thicker, was leaving a dented area on previously veneered surfaces under the pressure of the vacuum bag.
6. Apply urea formaldehyde glue to the edges being veneered. Using clear packing tape, affix the veneer in place.
7. Add the third spacer to the bottom of the sandwich and tape in place.
8. Slide the assembly into the vacuum bag and draw a partial vacuum. Adjust the upper surface of the bag as needed so that it drapes down tightly against the veneer edges being pressed. The lower two spacers provide sufficient lift to the veneered piece to allow the vacuum bag so press fully and evenly against the (vertical) edges being veneered.

Chipping of the edge veneer during final trimming is much more likely with a wide allowance. I finally cut a small piece of cardboard backer from a pad of ruled note paper and taped to the back of a veneer saw. With good support of the edge veneer on the show side carefully cut the veneer about 3/64" to 1/16" proud and carefully sand flush with a sanding block moving from the show side towards the glue side. Depending on the radius of curvature of the shelf edge, it might be possible to flex a thin piece of MDF or plywood to match the curve and fully support the veneer while sawing it close.

It's not as simple as pressing a flat surface, but it can be done. The biggest challenge likely will be final trimming of the edge veneer, depending on the wood type used and its affinity for chipping.


 
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Jeff Patrick


Joined: 2004-04-15
Location: Bainbridge Island, WA

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Subject : RE: veneering very difficult to clamp and vac-bag piece-
Posted : 2006-12-07 3:18 PM
Post #33481 - In reply to #33472

Use hide glue and hammer veneer the edges. I just did a very difficult bandsawn wavy edge area (hard to describe) and it came out great.


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