Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-05-12 11:03 AM
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Brian Harrington

 
Subject : How important is the top caul anyway?
Posted : 2002-06-29 6:00 PM
Post #29235

For some of my pieces, particularly parquetry or multiple quarter matched burls, the top caul seems to add nothing but trouble. Why can't I lay a thick layer of clear vinyl over the veneer/substrate/bottom caul sandwhich? This would save me from ahving to cut every single frickin piece of top caul to size, and wuld help prevent bleed through sticking to the top caul (I use vinyl sided hardboard as my top caul right now.BTW, new owner of the Vacu-Press Pro and I have to say, it is by far the best tool I've ever purchased. As a huge veneer user, I love this thing.Now if I only had space to operate three 4x8 bags!!!!Thanks for such a great product Darryl. I'm currently trying out Unibond for the first time on a very tricky burl project and a really complicate piece of parquetry. If this does what I ho[e it does, I'll definitely be a convert.Regards, -BrianBRian HarringtonHarrington WoodworkingSan Jose, CAStocking over 5000sq ft of premium veneer for sale in the Bay Area only! Call at 408.768.6601!!!



 
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Darryl Keil

 
Subject : How important is the top caul anyway?
Posted : 2002-06-30 9:06 AM
Post #29237 - In reply to #29235

Brian,You can skip the top caul but at a price. The main thing the top caul does is to make sure the vacuum pressure is "leveled" so to speak rather than just grabbing what is. See, if you have an slightly buckled veneer the bag will press down on the areas that touch your panel first and then put pressure on the areas that are buckled up. In this second or two difference glue can be pushed into these higher areas and when full pressure is applied these slightly higher areas have more glue puddled up into them and will stay that way. A cover sheet applies leveling pressure so this will not happen. Also, if an area of your veneer is a little raised up the pressure on the caul surrounding the problem spot will help concentrate this pressure so all the panel is pressed flat equally.Even on flat veneer a caul is benifitial because all veneer wants to wrinkle to some extent when it contacts the glue and the caul helps prevent this tendancy.If you have a panel with different thickness veneers on it just use 1/16" rubber between the veneer and cover sheet to deal with this. I do know one customer that does very involved marquetry work who wants to see the veneer when pressing. His solution is to carefully examine the reflection on the glossy surface of the bag to locate any problem spots and massages them down with a small wallpaper roller. Although this does work fine and I think its an appropriate solution in his case, I would not want to have to rub down all of my veneered panels.For the most part I use 1/8" vinyl coated masonite for cauls and just bid them into each job reusing them on smaller panels when I can. You can also veneer one side at a time with the veneer face down on an oversized caul. Just be sure to always veneer the otherside as soon as the first side is done. Do it immediately when you take the panel out. Also, be sure to place your panel close to one edge of this oversized caul so air does not get trapped around the panel.Be aware that Unibond 800 can stick to vinyl coated cauls if you leave the panel pressed overnight with excessive bleed through. Use some 4mil plastic between the veneer and caul for insurance in this case.SincerelyDarryl Keil: For some of my pieces, particularly parquetry or multiple quarter : matched burls, the top caul seems to add nothing but trouble. Why : can't I lay a thick layer of clear vinyl over the : veneer/substrate/bottom caul sandwhich? This would save me from : ahving to cut every single frickin piece of top caul to size, and : wuld help prevent bleed through sticking to the top caul (I use vinyl : sided hardboard as my top caul right now.: BTW, new owner of the Vacu-Press Pro and I have to say, it is by far : the best tool I've ever purchased. As a huge veneer user, I love this : thing.: Now if I only had space to operate three 4x8 bags!!!!: Thanks for such a great product Darryl. I'm currently trying out : Unibond for the first time on a very tricky burl project and a really : complicate piece of parquetry. If this does what I ho[e it does, I'll : definitely be a convert.: Regards, -Brian: BRian Harrington: Harrington Woodworking: San Jose, CA: Stocking over 5000sq ft of premium veneer for sale in the Bay Area : only! Call at 408.768.6601!!!




 
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Brian

 
Subject : How important is the top caul anyway?
Posted : 2002-06-30 1:28 PM
Post #29238 - In reply to #29237

Darryl, thanks for the insights. I used the Unibond resin for the first time yesterday on a piece of delicate parquetry work and a quarter matched walnut burl and all I can say is WOW. Unibond beats PVA hands down. Now, if only I could figure out how to mix just enough and not too much.... Also, is there any way to get set Unibond out of a plastic container? Without destroying the container? Regardless, I'm doing away with PVA in my veneering. I can see how it has it's place, but the Unibond is SO much better.: Brian,: You can skip the top caul but at a price. The main thing the top caul does is to make sure the vacuum pressure is "leveled" so to speak rather than just grabbing what is. See, if you have an slightly buckled veneer the bag will press down on the areas that touch your panel first and then put pressure on the areas that are buckled up. In this second or two difference glue can be pushed into these higher areas and when full pressure is applied these slightly higher areas have more glue puddled up into them and will stay that way. A cover sheet applies leveling pressure so this will not happen. Also, if an area of your veneer is a little raised up the pressure on the caul surrounding the problem spot will help concentrate this pressure so all the panel is pressed flat equally.: Even on flat veneer a caul is benifitial because all veneer wants to wrinkle to some extent when it contacts the glue and the caul helps prevent this tendancy.: If you have a panel with different thickness veneers on it just use 1/16" rubber between the veneer and cover sheet to deal with this. I do know one customer that does very involved marquetry work who wants to see the veneer when pressing. His solution is to carefully examine the reflection on the glossy surface of the bag to locate any problem spots and massages them down with a small wallpaper roller. Although this does work fine and I think its an appropriate solution in his case, I would not want to have to rub down all of my veneered panels.: For the most part I use 1/8" vinyl coated masonite for cauls and just bid them into each job reusing them on smaller panels when I can. You can also veneer one side at a time with the veneer face down on an oversized caul. Just be sure to always veneer the otherside as soon as the first side is done. Do it immediately when you take the panel out. Also, be sure to place your panel close to one edge of this oversized caul so air does not get trapped around the panel.: Be aware that Unibond 800 can stick to vinyl coated cauls if you leave the panel pressed overnight with excessive bleed through. Use some 4mil plastic between the veneer and caul for insurance in this case.: : Sincerely: Darryl Keil: : For some of my pieces, particularly parquetry or multiple quarter : : matched burls, the top caul seems to add nothing but trouble. Why : : can't I lay a thick layer of clear vinyl over the : : veneer/substrate/bottom caul sandwhich? This would save me from : : ahving to cut every single frickin piece of top caul to size, and : : wuld help prevent bleed through sticking to the top caul (I use vinyl : : sided hardboard as my top caul right now.: : BTW, new owner of the Vacu-Press Pro and I have to say, it is by far : : the best tool I've ever purchased. As a huge veneer user, I love this : : thing.: : Now if I only had space to operate three 4x8 bags!!!!: : Thanks for such a great product Darryl. I'm currently trying out : : Unibond for the first time on a very tricky burl project and a really : : complicate piece of parquetry. If this does what I ho[e it does, I'll : : definitely be a convert.: : Regards, -Brian: : BRian Harrington: : Harrington Woodworking: : San Jose, CA: : Stocking over 5000sq ft of premium veneer for sale in the Bay Area : : only! Call at 408.768.6601!!!




 
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Darryl Keil

 
Subject : How important is the top caul anyway?
Posted : 2002-07-02 6:41 PM
Post #29243 - In reply to #29238

Brian,Glad you are pleased with the Unibond 800 glue. We put a lot of work into making it preform the way we want. As far as your plastic container, if its a flexible one, the glue should pop out the next day when it gets rigid.SincerelyDarryl Keil: Darryl, thanks for the insights. I used the Unibond resin for the first time yesterday on a piece of delicate parquetry work and a quarter matched walnut burl and all I can say is WOW. Unibond beats PVA hands down. Now, if only I could figure out how to mix just enough and not too much.... Also, is there any way to get set Unibond out of a plastic container? Without destroying the container? : Regardless, I'm doing away with PVA in my veneering. I can see how it has it's place, but the Unibond is SO much better.: : : Brian,: : You can skip the top caul but at a price. The main thing the top caul does is to make sure the vacuum pressure is "leveled" so to speak rather than just grabbing what is. See, if you have an slightly buckled veneer the bag will press down on the areas that touch your panel first and then put pressure on the areas that are buckled up. In this second or two difference glue can be pushed into these higher areas and when full pressure is applied these slightly higher areas have more glue puddled up into them and will stay that way. A cover sheet applies leveling pressure so this will not happen. Also, if an area of your veneer is a little raised up the pressure on the caul surrounding the problem spot will help concentrate this pressure so all the panel is pressed flat equally.: : Even on flat veneer a caul is benifitial because all veneer wants to wrinkle to some extent when it contacts the glue and the caul helps prevent this tendancy.: : If you have a panel with different thickness veneers on it just use 1/16" rubber between the veneer and cover sheet to deal with this. I do know one customer that does very involved marquetry work who wants to see the veneer when pressing. His solution is to carefully examine the reflection on the glossy surface of the bag to locate any problem spots and massages them down with a small wallpaper roller. Although this does work fine and I think its an appropriate solution in his case, I would not want to have to rub down all of my veneered panels.: : For the most part I use 1/8" vinyl coated masonite for cauls and just bid them into each job reusing them on smaller panels when I can. You can also veneer one side at a time with the veneer face down on an oversized caul. Just be sure to always veneer the otherside as soon as the first side is done. Do it immediately when you take the panel out. Also, be sure to place your panel close to one edge of this oversized caul so air does not get trapped around the panel.: : Be aware that Unibond 800 can stick to vinyl coated cauls if you leave the panel pressed overnight with excessive bleed through. Use some 4mil plastic between the veneer and caul for insurance in this case.: : : : Sincerely: : Darryl Keil: : : : For some of my pieces, particularly parquetry or multiple quarter : : : matched burls, the top caul seems to add nothing but trouble. Why : : : can't I lay a thick layer of clear vinyl over the : : : veneer/substrate/bottom caul sandwhich? This would save me from : : : ahving to cut every single frickin piece of top caul to size, and : : : wuld help prevent bleed through sticking to the top caul (I use vinyl : : : sided hardboard as my top caul right now.: : : BTW, new owner of the Vacu-Press Pro and I have to say, it is by far : : : the best tool I've ever purchased. As a huge veneer user, I love this : : : thing.: : : Now if I only had space to operate three 4x8 bags!!!!: : : Thanks for such a great product Darryl. I'm currently trying out : : : Unibond for the first time on a very tricky burl project and a really : : : complicate piece of parquetry. If this does what I ho[e it does, I'll : : : definitely be a convert.: : : Regards, -Brian: : : BRian Harrington: : : Harrington Woodworking: : : San Jose, CA: : : Stocking over 5000sq ft of premium veneer for sale in the Bay Area : : : only! Call at 408.768.6601!!!




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