Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-09-09 11:09 AM
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Matthew

 
Subject : Couple of glue questions
Posted : 2002-03-24 10:36 PM
Post #29819

I was reading a book on veneering and have a couple of questions: 1)can you use contact cement to veneer wood to MDF, and what are the advantaged/disadvantages to doing this? 2)I read in the book that the author used the following process.....he put two coates of thined regular carpenters yellow glue on the veneer and the MDF, then let dry, then laid the veneer on the MDF and took a regular household iron and bonded the two together, the author did not clamp or press or put the bonded piece in a bag/vaccuum set up....he just let it set to cure.....what is your opinion of this process and what are the advantages/disadvantages to doing this? I am totally new to this art and am trying to learn all I can......I appreciate the feed back!! Thanks



 
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Bryce

 
Subject : Some Helpful Adhesive Info : >)
Posted : 2002-04-09 3:48 AM
Post #29851 - In reply to #29819

The answer to your questions are yes and no. First, the contact glue you mention and carpenter's glue are two totally different kinds of glue for (perhaps) totally different uses depending on end use requirements. Let me explain. Your contact glue is technically called an "elastomeric" adhesive. It is "elastic" and always will remain so until it breaks down from ultraviolet degradation, crystylization, or effects due to other reasons. In your [wood] veneer work, especially on large surfaces, you may get the dreaded delamination and bubbles far too frequently. It is not the recommended adhesive to use in veneering. HOWEVER,(and here is a yes maybe part)contact glue is most often used [double spread] by millwork shops for the purpose of veneer edgebanding [usually] MDF panels where the width of edgebanding does not exceed approximately 2". They use it because it's fast and cheap, and as I've said before, millwork is not usually required to stand the test of time. Veneering by conventional press or by vacuum, and using a "thermosetting" adhesive, such as a urea formaldehyde, is certainly one acceptable method. Another method, by the same pressing methods, is to use a good cross-linking PVA "thermoplastic" adhesive such as your carpenter's or white adhesives. As far as the "ironing" technique is concerned, I have had experience with that in a millwork shop where I worked. Due to a production screw-up and no time to remanufacture the drawers, four 36" X 6" drawer fronts had to be reveneered with maple. No one had ever tried it but I was asked if I thought it could be done. (Someone had actually seen a write-up on the technique in Fine Woodworking.) The key to the technique is that it can only be done with "thermoplastic" adhesives, i.e., the adhesives can be resoftened by heat. I generously applied the adhesive to both mating surfaces and allowed a specific "open window" of time for them to dry before positioning and starting to apply heat. If you heat is too high, or you are too slow you will be successful at giving your veneer a deep and permanent scorch with the iron. Start in the middle of your panel and iron out the slight waves and undulations toward the edges and outer corners. With some practice I think you could be quite skilled in a short time. This is nothing really than a variation on the old hammer-veneering technique. Although nothing really substitutes for real work experience and experimentation, I must encourage many of you newbies to search out some good technically related books and start building a library. You will find within the pages a lot of neat stuff that kind of gives you a good theoretical foundation that a lot of the tips, techniques, and success stories are based on. This is just fact.




 
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Darryl Keil

 
Subject : Couple of glue questions
Posted : 2002-03-25 10:34 PM
Post #29821 - In reply to #29819

Dear Matthew,The answer to your question is another question, which is, what level of workmanship do you want out of your veneer work. Both of the techniques you talk about are what you do when you don't have a press, which is the correct way to veneer. Both are compromises not comparible solutions. So the question is, are these solutions acceptable. For me the answer is NO, but for someone else who does not have a press but still would like to veneer the answer might be yes. If you want to do it right get a press of some kind. If you are not up for spending the money on one and want to veneer anyway, just be aware that these techniques are compromises not full solutions. As a hobbiest project I could see doing it but not professionally, not something you would sell. Contact cement is a soft glue line which does not assure a solid bond over the long run, easy to get bubbles and fizzuring. Remember, the concept behind veneering to cut wood thin enough to overcome seasonal expansion and contraction when glued down to a stable substrate. The success of this is depends for the most part on the glue, contact cement is to flexible. The iron on technique at least uses a harder glue but puts extreme heat in a very localized area which will open up any seams you have in the veneer and its difficult to get good even pressure at the exact right moment when the glue is melted. I reserve this method for small surfaces like the edge of a curved door where it is difficult to clamp and will not be seen much.SincerelyDarryl Keil: I was reading a book on veneering and have a couple of questions: 1): can you use contact cement to veneer wood to MDF, and what are the : advantaged/disadvantages to doing this? 2)I read in the book that : the author used the following process.....he put two coates of thined : regular carpenters yellow glue on the veneer and the MDF, then let : dry, then laid the veneer on the MDF and took a regular household : iron and bonded the two together, the author did not clamp or press : or put the bonded piece in a bag/vaccuum set up....he just let it set : to cure.....what is your opinion of this process and what are the : advantages/disadvantages to doing this? I am totally new to : this art and am trying to learn all I can......I appreciate the feed : back!! Thanks




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