Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-02-12 2:48 PM
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Brian

 
Subject : vinyl top caul experiment, etc
Posted : 2002-07-05 11:25 AM
Post #29253

I obtained a large sheet of 20mil vinyl from a local hardware store (OSH in California) for dirt cheap.I was veneering door panel inserts with waterfall bubinga facing and mottled bubinga backer (on 1/4" mdf). For the bottom I used a regular caul. On the top, however, I cut out a piece of the vinyl and spread it over the panels. It wasn't as easy, per se, as sandwiching and taping the panels, but the results were fantastic. And interestingly, ZERO bleedthrough on the top, minor bleedthrough on the bottom, but that's probably because I used the 7-1 ratio on the Unibond more than anything. But, the vinyl top caul worked fine, and the Waterfall Bubinga isn't the world's flattest veneer. Plus, I got to watch the glue line.Anyway, I like this method a lot. It's much easier than having to buy vinyl single-side boards and cut to size, and cheaper too. plus, an oversize vinyl caul will simply wrap down the edges of your panel, rather than causing localized pressure problems like you might get with an oversized top caul.Finding the 20mil vinyl was the hardest part. Finding the salesguy who was also a woodworker and had an interest in veneer and gave me a break on the price was just lucky Anyway, I'm going to keep experimenting with this method. Don't think it would work for compound curved work, but for flat stuff, it was great. And I felt like it protected my poly 30mil bag from sharp corners better.I gotta tell you Darryl, that Vacu-Press Pro is the best tool in my shop, and I've got some pretty nice tools. Easy to use, excellent results, portable.... If only I had more space in my shop, I'd be running three bags simultaneously off the manifold.I'm also still searching for the perfect veneer knife. Right now I've settled on the Exacto heavy duty knife (hard to find, but very nice) and my saw. Does the rotary cutter work as well as it appears?And finally here's my challenge:I've got stacks of nice walnut burl. Stacks. Not a TON of figure, but almost all defect free, nice wood. Of course, they are not perfectly square, and I really like to quarter match them. Been having a helluva time with the joints. I can't stack in a jig and router them (tried that) because each leaf is uniquely un-square. I wind up losing too much figure on the cutaway to effectively get the good quartermatch. Double cutting is difficult because knifing through those burls is nothing but trouble, even after having been sized two or three times and dry pressed flat. They still want to buckle.I tried making a sandwich of four leaves in between some MDF and turning my router table into a jointer and taking off 1/4" on each side until I ostensibly had four perfectly square leaves, but no... the joints still separated. Perfect joints at the center and halfway up, but the burl wants to pull apart at the far edges.What to do???



 
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Darryl Keil

 
Subject : vinyl top caul experiment, etc
Posted : 2002-07-07 5:26 PM
Post #29259 - In reply to #29253

Brian,Im not fond of the rotary knife for veneer seaming. The best knife I have found is one from Germany that we carry, you may want to give it a try.As far as your burl veneer goes, I think all of your problems would be solved by flattening the individual pieces before seaming and taping. If veneers are resonably flat joining them together can be a nightmare. Try the veneer flattening formula listed under my response to the recent post "storing veneer(mahogany crotch)"SincerelyDarryl Keil: I obtained a large sheet of 20mil vinyl from a local hardware store : (OSH in California) for dirt cheap.: I was veneering door panel inserts with waterfall bubinga facing and : mottled bubinga backer (on 1/4" mdf). For the bottom I used a regular : caul. On the top, however, I cut out a piece of the vinyl and spread : it over the panels. It wasn't as easy, per se, as sandwiching and : taping the panels, but the results were fantastic. And interestingly, : ZERO bleedthrough on the top, minor bleedthrough on the bottom, but : that's probably because I used the 7-1 ratio on the Unibond more than : anything. But, the vinyl top caul worked fine, and the Waterfall : Bubinga isn't the world's flattest veneer. Plus, I got to watch the : glue line.: Anyway, I like this method a lot. It's much easier than having to buy : vinyl single-side boards and cut to size, and cheaper too. plus, an : oversize vinyl caul will simply wrap down the edges of your panel, : rather than causing localized pressure problems like you might get : with an oversized top caul.: Finding the 20mil vinyl was the hardest part. Finding the salesguy : who was also a woodworker and had an interest in veneer and gave me a : break on the price was just lucky : Anyway, I'm going to keep experimenting with this method. Don't think : it would work for compound curved work, but for flat stuff, it was : great. And I felt like it protected my poly 30mil bag from sharp : corners better.: I gotta tell you Darryl, that Vacu-Press Pro is the best tool in my : shop, and I've got some pretty nice tools. Easy to use, excellent : results, portable.... If only I had more space in my shop, I'd be : running three bags simultaneously off the manifold.: I'm also still searching for the perfect veneer knife. Right now I've : settled on the Exacto heavy duty knife (hard to find, but very nice) : and my saw. Does the rotary cutter work as well as it appears?: And finally here's my challenge:: I've got stacks of nice walnut burl. Stacks. Not a TON of figure, but : almost all defect free, nice wood. Of course, they are not perfectly : square, and I really like to quarter match them. Been having a : helluva time with the joints. I can't stack in a jig and router them : (tried that) because each leaf is uniquely un-square. I wind up : losing too much figure on the cutaway to effectively get the good : quartermatch. Double cutting is difficult because knifing through : those burls is nothing but trouble, even after having been sized two : or three times and dry pressed flat. They still want to buckle.: I tried making a sandwich of four leaves in between some MDF and : turning my router table into a jointer and taking off 1/4" on each : side until I ostensibly had four perfectly square leaves, but no... : the joints still separated. Perfect joints at the center and halfway : up, but the burl wants to pull apart at the far edges.: What to do???




 
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brian

 
Subject : vinyl top caul experiment, etc
Posted : 2002-07-07 7:55 PM
Post #29260 - In reply to #29259

Has anyone else tried using the japanese Azebiki saws for veneer cutting? Super thin kerf, amazing on the crosscut. I'm a big japanese tools guy, and picked up a fairly high end saw. After the initial scoring with the knife, the saw was cleanly through the veneer in three strokes. Much much cleaner cut than the Two Cherries brand veneer saw I've been using. Something to think about.: Brian,: Im not fond of the rotary knife for veneer seaming. The best knife I have found is one from Germany that we carry, you may want to give it a try.: As far as your burl veneer goes, I think all of your problems would be solved by flattening the individual pieces before seaming and taping. If veneers are resonably flat joining them together can be a nightmare. Try the veneer flattening formula listed under my response to the recent post "storing veneer(mahogany crotch)": Sincerely: Darryl Keil: : I obtained a large sheet of 20mil vinyl from a local hardware store : : (OSH in California) for dirt cheap.: : I was veneering door panel inserts with waterfall bubinga facing and : : mottled bubinga backer (on 1/4" mdf). For the bottom I used a regular : : caul. On the top, however, I cut out a piece of the vinyl and spread : : it over the panels. It wasn't as easy, per se, as sandwiching and : : taping the panels, but the results were fantastic. And interestingly, : : ZERO bleedthrough on the top, minor bleedthrough on the bottom, but : : that's probably because I used the 7-1 ratio on the Unibond more than : : anything. But, the vinyl top caul worked fine, and the Waterfall : : Bubinga isn't the world's flattest veneer. Plus, I got to watch the : : glue line.: : Anyway, I like this method a lot. It's much easier than having to buy : : vinyl single-side boards and cut to size, and cheaper too. plus, an : : oversize vinyl caul will simply wrap down the edges of your panel, : : rather than causing localized pressure problems like you might get : : with an oversized top caul.: : Finding the 20mil vinyl was the hardest part. Finding the salesguy : : who was also a woodworker and had an interest in veneer and gave me a : : break on the price was just lucky : : Anyway, I'm going to keep experimenting with this method. Don't think : : it would work for compound curved work, but for flat stuff, it was : : great. And I felt like it protected my poly 30mil bag from sharp : : corners better.: : I gotta tell you Darryl, that Vacu-Press Pro is the best tool in my : : shop, and I've got some pretty nice tools. Easy to use, excellent : : results, portable.... If only I had more space in my shop, I'd be : : running three bags simultaneously off the manifold.: : I'm also still searching for the perfect veneer knife. Right now I've : : settled on the Exacto heavy duty knife (hard to find, but very nice) : : and my saw. Does the rotary cutter work as well as it appears?: : And finally here's my challenge:: : I've got stacks of nice walnut burl. Stacks. Not a TON of figure, but : : almost all defect free, nice wood. Of course, they are not perfectly : : square, and I really like to quarter match them. Been having a : : helluva time with the joints. I can't stack in a jig and router them : : (tried that) because each leaf is uniquely un-square. I wind up : : losing too much figure on the cutaway to effectively get the good : : quartermatch. Double cutting is difficult because knifing through : : those burls is nothing but trouble, even after having been sized two : : or three times and dry pressed flat. They still want to buckle.: : I tried making a sandwich of four leaves in between some MDF and : : turning my router table into a jointer and taking off 1/4" on each : : side until I ostensibly had four perfectly square leaves, but no... : : the joints still separated. Perfect joints at the center and halfway : : up, but the burl wants to pull apart at the far edges.: : What to do???




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