Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-09-09 11:09 AM
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Steven Kenzer

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Joined: 2008-07-16
Location: Putney, VT

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Subject : Festool T55
Posted : 2008-07-22 6:39 PM
Post #34759

Well.....after reading all the positive comments about this tool, in regards to joining veneer, I decided to purchase it. Prior to this, I have joined veneer by router jigs, veneer saw (hand) and a joiner technique. Today, I joined up many panels in a figured mahogany and have to say I'm VERY impressed. The cut was precise and perfect...no splintering or chip out. Ease of use gets a 10+.....really, much simpler then any of my previous techniques. At this point, I have nothing but praise for this tool and it's ability to join veneer. So, thank you, Forum. I'm curious....Darryl, you mentioned you will be trying this. If you have, what's your reaction? Thanks.


 
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BigRob777

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2008-07-22 6:46 PM
Post #34760 - In reply to #34759

Steven,
Thanks for the good report. I'm always on the look out for better tools and I just purchased the veneer cutter, from vacupress. I've seen it in use in Darryl's 2nd dvd, but haven't heard anyone talk about it. Is it on par with the festool? I guess it's only used for straight cuts. I hope its use isn't limited to cylinders. I guess I'll be picking up the festool, when the money starts coming in more.
Rob


 
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Brian Gray

Posts: 339

Joined: 2004-01-21
Location: Sandusky, OH

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2008-07-22 8:43 PM
Post #34762 - In reply to #34760

Another Festool convert!!!

Testify, brother!


 
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2008-07-22 8:46 PM
Post #34763 - In reply to #34759

Uncle Festus strikes again!


 
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BigRob777

Posts: 142

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2008-07-22 9:28 PM
Post #34764 - In reply to #34763

So, what are the uses of the festool? Is it good for curves, straight cuts, etc? What else do you use it for, other than veneering? I've not heard much about it, except for in this forum.
Thanks,
Rob


 
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Brian Gray

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2008-07-22 9:44 PM
Post #34765 - In reply to #34764

The Festool is by no means a cheap tool, but it's incredibly versatile for many uses.

When you use it in conjuntion with the guide, it's absolute precision for veneer or lumber. Crosscutting, ripping, and also useful as a panel saw.

The guide has a rubber mat on the edge that creates zero clearance and absolute clean cuts.

For veneer, you basically lay your veneer upon a sacrificial sheet of plywood, mdf, or some other flat surface that you don't mind cutting into. The veneer gets sandwiched between the sacrificial sheet and the guide. When the blade cuts, you set the blade depth to just barely sever the veneer, and slightly plunge into the sacrificial board. There's no clearance, and you get perfect cuts on both sides of the veneer.

Here's a multifunction table that I made to compliment my Festool. Not just the saw, but also the router, sander, Domino, etc....

http://www.briangray.net/projectdetail.cfm?ProjectID=32

Not cheap, but if you want perfectly jointed seams in veneer, as well as a good panel saw, it's great.


 
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Paul Kierstead

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Joined: 2008-01-24
Location: Ottawa, ON

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2008-07-22 9:49 PM
Post #34766 - In reply to #34765

I'd say awesome panel saw....


 
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BigRob777

Posts: 142

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2008-07-22 10:30 PM
Post #34767 - In reply to #34766

I didn't realize that the festool TS 55 was a circular saw. What makes it cut veneer so well? Is it a zero clearance saw?
Rob


 
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Brad

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2008-07-23 2:58 PM
Post #34768 - In reply to #34767

Big Rob:
Zero Clearance and a good blade makes for perfect cuts. The precision straight edge is the other nice feature. Much quicker to complete cuts. I have not ventured into the Festool world yet, as I fear once I do I will end up replacing all my handheld tools and that will cost a bundle.

You will probably find the veneer knife you mentioned does not work so great cross grain. I built a jig that I can clamp the veneer between and then cut through with my cordless 18V dewalt with a good blade. A cheap zero clearance version so long as I always use blades with the same kerf. I find that works very well for cross grain cuts. For grainwise cuts used the knife for a while but soon built the same router jig that Darryl used. It works much better and you can cut a stack of veneers.

Brad


 
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BigRob777

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2008-07-23 4:04 PM
Post #34769 - In reply to #34768

Brad,
The main thing that I'll be veneering is a square, framed with either veneer banding, or with another wood, then banded. I'll need to learn how to do the cross-grain cutting. I haven't tried cutting yet, other than with a paper cutter scissor style, for tags, for a customer. I have to punch them with a hole punch made for peper, but it works well. My customer makes hand made knives (from knife kits) and wanted nice tags. I had to toss a few, as the with-the-grain cuts left some wavy lines, on the edge. What stops that from happening with bigger cuts? I was cutting curly anigre'.

Now, back to the topic at hand: When you cut with the festool, do you tape the veneer to the sacrificial (temporary) substrate?

Thanks,
Rob


 
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Brad

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2008-07-23 5:32 PM
Post #34770 - In reply to #34769

Rob:
I am nowhere as experienced as the others here, but I found the same with the knife. Maybe if a guy were to clamp the straight edge down it would work better so long as your straight edge is good size, but I found the router and jig are quicker and more accurate if you are trying to join pieces.

I dont know how people do it with the festool. I suspect it is not necessary given its rail setup and ability to clamp at the ends. You could try mimicking the Festool concept with a piece of wood above and below the veneer and equip your skilsaw with a good quality veneer blade. Use the straight edge as a guide on top of the stack and cut through the top board and veneer. If you inset the cut line from the edges and use stock that is wider than your common veneers you will be able to re-use the assembly many times. I do my cross-cutting with a jig like this. If you want a pic, I can take one for you.

From your comments it does not sound like you had heard of Festool until this discussion. Great tools, awesome engineering, amazing vacuum systems, but the downfall is the tools are significantly more expensive than other North American products. You do get what you pay for in this case. To give you an idea of the cost, I priced out the 6" FEQ orbital sander and a CT22 vacuum in Canada and it was almost $1k for the pair. Another pitfall, is in some cases you are stuck buying their consumables and as with all european tools, its all metric. Everything I have read suggests once you have one, you dont stop until you have them all. I assume you found their website?

Brad


 
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BigRob777

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2008-07-23 5:52 PM
Post #34771 - In reply to #34770

Yup, I found their site. I didn't spend much time there though, as I'm not going to be purchasing one anytime soon. I have too much other equipment to guy, before I can pick up a festool. I like the idea of using a router and a veneer sandwich.
Rob


 
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Don Stephan

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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2008-07-23 8:50 PM
Post #34776 - In reply to #34771

Rob:

Again, many of your questions are covered very well in the four dvd's available. From one of your posts I gather you have one of Darryl's vid's and awaiting delivery of his other. By all means also get the two dvd's by Paul Schurch. Making straight cross grain cuts is covered in the first; building a packet of veneers and cutting through to make inlay is covered very well in the 2nd.

These four vids will give you a real jump start on making and selling decoratively veneered items.


 
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BigRob777

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2008-07-23 9:14 PM
Post #34778 - In reply to #34776

Well, now I'm broke, so that's going to have to wait. I have spent a ton of money already on veneering equipment and stock and have to pump out a few works of art, before I can start spending again.
Rob


 
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Darryl Keil

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2008-07-23 9:07 PM
Post #34777 - In reply to #34759

Steve,

I must confess I have not gotten one yet, just been busy with other stuff. At this rate I'll be the only one on this forum without one!

Darryl


 
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ckurak

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Joined: 2006-10-28
Location: Florida

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2008-07-23 10:30 PM
Post #34779 - In reply to #34777

Darryl,

Yup. You might be. I bought my TS75 this spring when I needed to make a perfect scribe cut on a decorative veneered counter top that was inset into a U-shaped niche. I had one shot at cutting it correctly. Failure was NOT an option. The cut was perfect.

Charles


 
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Don Stephan

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2008-07-25 8:00 PM
Post #34784 - In reply to #34777

Come on Darryl, let little Festie come in any play with Wally Dewalt, Petie Powermatic, the Pete and Connie Porter-Cable twins, Donna Delta, and the other rug-rats.


 
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Brian Gray

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2008-07-25 10:02 PM
Post #34785 - In reply to #34784

Well Darryl...I have to chime in...

It's about time, eh???

You've been hearing from your forum members singing the praises for at least the last two years, eh?

I'm teasing...but honestly...

I would not have believed it until I saw it.

You gotta check out the Festool for trimming veneer.

I predict that you will never use your Fein again...


 
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Don Stephan

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2008-07-27 10:07 AM
Post #34787 - In reply to #34785

Heard on the grapevine there's a couple attachments coming out soon for the saw.

2' x 3' x 34" kitchen counter height. Open that clamp, slide into this slot, tighten those knobs, connect to the kitchen sink like a portable dishwasher, and VOILA - a robotic barrista offering walnut-cherry mocha light, mahogany-padauk latta, and for the strong stomachs teak-rosewood triple caffeen bombs, all with the cutsie little designs on the top like bookmatched olive ash burl or a 16 piece mahogany crotch starburst.

Working late every night on the job from hell and haven't time for the barber? Drop the saw into the prototype Barney-helmet, plug into the vacuum and get a professionally styled haircut while you work. The vacuum will get 97% of the trimmings, and you'll even be able to set the length of your sideburns reliably from week to week. Rumor is this attachment will only work with the TS55.

No doubt the're also working on a manicure-pedicure attachment for the new miter saw and a fingernail cleaning system for the small router.


 
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Darryl Keil

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2008-07-28 9:09 AM
Post #34789 - In reply to #34785

Brian,

I know, I know, and I will get one. Just too many tasks and the saw falls to the back burner. Did you get yours locally or order it on line?

Darryl


 
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Gary McD

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Location: Jacksonville, FL

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2009-06-08 11:36 PM
Post #35487 - In reply to #34789

As a newbie to this forum, I'm joining the subject late, but MUST chime in re: the Festool RAIL saw. Have used one for years to cut up plywood flawlessly and with no juggling of full sheets on my Unisaw. Joining veneer is simple and blindingly fast to set up, as mentioned already. A couple people asked about curves, and I can tell you that the Festool JIGSAW is truly like a surgical instrument when weilded by one skilled in hand guidance. You can cut an eliptical tabletop before or after veneering the panel, depending on the edging situation. As long as you can precisely follow a line, you will need just minimal edge sanding. The KEY is using Festool's smallest, high tooth count blade with double row of teeth and no set, like a japanese crosscut saw. There is also a zero clearance splinter guard you must use. Visibility of the line is tricky, but practice and be amazed! I'm not on their payroll, just addicted to the utter superiority of most of their products, especially when time = money for a full time pro. Also, here's a big hint not mentioned yet...you can get even better results, not by jointing a STACK of veneer under the guide rail, but by laying 2 sheets edge to edge on your table with a slight overlap where they are to join, then line up the guide rail so the cut will sever both sheets simultaneously and any miniscule waver in the cut will be exactly mirrored in the 2 pieces. Be sure the sheet on the right is lapped under the left one, and make a registration line so you can glue them down just as they were cut. A scrap board for weight on the right is helpful. Oh, and using one of their low angle or negative hook triple chip blades (newly sharp) is the way to go.


 
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Tim

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Joined: 2007-06-26
Location: Baltimore MD

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2009-06-11 2:28 PM
Post #35489 - In reply to #35487

I find one of the trickiest aspects of joining veneers is when they are wrinkly, even after flattening. Although I don't see a Festool any time soon in my future, can the guide be attached to a reasonably heavy piece of plywood so that the veneers are pressed flat when they are cut? I have mostly sandwiched the edges to be trimmed between two pieces of plywood and trimmed them with a large dia. top bearing bit. The larger dia. bit the better, also climb cut to lessen tear out.


 
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Gary McD

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Location: Jacksonville, FL

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2009-06-11 9:52 PM
Post #35493 - In reply to #35489

good point...have not yet encountered this scenario. I can envision double stick taping the Festool guide rail down to a matching strip of MDF (for weight)and making a first cut thru that strip to establish the "cutting edge" and then using this rig to weight down the veneers on your table. If you are not familiar with the system, you must have a sacrificial surface (cardboard sheets, foam sheets, or even mdf) on your cutting table and set the saw depth to just score into this surface as it cuts thru the desired material. The ends of the guide rail can be clamped down for pressure. The nice thing is that if you are using a sharp, triple chip, low to negative hook blade in the saw, and a fairly slow feed rate, you should get a great cut with no tearout. May also help to just cut 1 or 2 sheets at a time. Of course, a bit of luck is always involved. It sounds like you have a reliable system with the router, so run with it, but if you ever buy the saw, life may get easier, not to mention all the other great stuff the saw can do, like cut plastic laminate with no hassles. I just bought a bunch of crotch veneer and some other wrinkled stuff, so I'm glad you made me think about how to handle this in advance.


 
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BigRob777

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2009-06-11 10:16 PM
Post #35494 - In reply to #35493

Is the blade that comes with the saw good for veneer? I'm glad Gary mentioned the sacrificial surface. I was wondering how to use it for veneer. Mine's still in the box.

I have a huge (for me) project that I need to do well, so I'm going to practice with a corner table, to cover my dog's bed and fill a corner between the sofa and love seat. It's going to be a big table. I want to learn as much as I can, before I start cutting on my veneer stock pile. I'd rather use something cheap, rather than the waterfall bubinga, that I had planned to use for the corner table. I also wanted to use a wide piece, so I don't have to tape any edges up on my first go-around.

Should I tape the edge, prior to cutting it? I'm thinking that being a novice, I'll do something that'll make the veneer slip and if the bookmatched edges are taped together, it won't slip. I'm getting ready to watch DVD number one, from DK. Maybe that'll refresh what I've learned so far.

BTW, were there supposed to be clamps with the T55? I read either wood mag, or woodworker's journal, and it said that it comes with clamps. Mine didn't.

Thanks,
Rob


 
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Paul Kierstead

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Location: Ottawa, ON

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2009-06-12 8:30 AM
Post #35497 - In reply to #35494

I sometimes use a bit of tape to hold the sheet together.

You've invested quite a lot in equipment. It would really, *really* pay you to go get some modestly priced veneer that you don't worry about, some particle board, and make up some shelves or the like for the house or even workshop. You will find that enormously helpful, and I really mean that. It will very quickly all become clear, or at least it will become very clear what you need to know.

I don't believe it normally comes with clamps; I have them, and rarely use them (though do occasionally).




 
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Gary McD

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2009-06-12 3:51 PM
Post #35498 - In reply to #35497

Rob, you gotta be kidding, this is Festool, they aren't going to include accessories when they can sell you some later I love their stuff and use it daily, that's why I'm broke. But seriously, you could always just use a couple C-clamps at the ends of the rail if there is enough clearance for you to make the cut somewhere in between. Their clamps are worthwhile getting eventually, especially if you cut slick stuff like melamine or formica. I think the saw comes with the fine blade #491-952 which should give good results since it is new and super sharp, but as Paul said, test it on some scraps. Take a look at the blade for Aluminum/plastic and the one for solid surface/laminate. Both of these have a less agressive hook angle and are less likely to tear out on something thin. If you sometimes cut aluminum or plexi, it would be worth the steep price for that blade, as you will get good veneer cuts as well, just make the cut slowly and be sure your saw depth setting is just enough to go thru the material and groove the sacrificial cardboard (or whatever) maybe 1/16 inch. I don't know if you noticed my advice about overlapping 2 sheets of veneer and making the cut at the overlap? That is a good place to use some blue tape to keep everything lined up, just don't stick it down too hard or you might pull up some wood when you go to peel it off. Hope this helps, like Paul said, practice is key. Did I understand correctly that you haven't used the saw yet? If not, remember to make a "dummy" cut the entire length of the rail to shave off the edge of the rubber strip and then you will have the true edge to set on your hash marks and the saw will cut exactly there. After a few months, the rubber gets beat up enough to need replacing or you can just peel it up and restick with some two sided tape, move it out a little and do a fresh "dummy" cut and it will be like new.


 
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Don Stephan

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Subject : RE: Festool T55
Posted : 2009-06-12 5:37 PM
Post #35499 - In reply to #35489

Tim:
I'd like to see some comments about wrinkling after flattening so I started a new thread on this subject. Hope you don't mind.
Don


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