Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-09-09 11:09 AM
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BigRob777

Posts: 142

Joined: 2008-05-26
Location: Newark, DE

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Subject : More Newbie Questions
Posted : 2009-06-16 3:01 AM
Post #35514
1. I was wondering if all MDF is the same? The stuff around here is brownish, whereas the stuff on Darryl's DVD is the same color as particle board, a lighter manilla color.

2. Also, I heard in another post, that some folks clean out their rollers after using them with unibond. How do you do that, without polluting your waste water or ground water and/or ruining your pipes.

3. What's the ratio of catalyst to liquid with the unibond?

4. Where do I find the dry analine dye for unibond, to darken it up? I just bought some ebony gaboon (Gabon?) and don't want the lines showing up, especially since it will be one of my first attempts at veneering.

5. I didn't hear about Vacupress, until after I had bought one of Joe's models. Mine is a continuous run type. Are there any problems inherant with that style of vacuum press?

I'm sure I'll have more questions, once I start veneering, but Darryl's video answered all of my other Q's. I'm watching the first one a third time, before I get started. I forget what the minimum temp for unibond is. I heard it the first time through, but my narcolleptic tendencies cause me to miss important points sometimes. I'll have to check my notes. I think I wrote it down.

Thanks in advance,
Rob


 
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craig tufankjian

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Location: syracuse ny 13208

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Subject : RE: More Newbie Questions
Posted : 2009-06-16 9:13 AM
Post #35517 - In reply to #35514
Rob,

mdf comes in a variety of densities and even colors.

medium and high density as well as ultra lite and medex. medium is the most common and used for veneering, shaping and even molding runs. high density is usually reserved for profile wrapping and making moldings.the higher density gives you sharper and crisper profiling abilities. a little heavier as well.

Ultra lite is well.... lighter. and in most cases a little less brown in color. Almost a tan color.

Medex is water resistant mdf and comes in a light green color. I have seen it lilac as well.

there was the introduction of colored mdf's a while back from a company in buffalo ny. colors like black,blue,yellow,green,orange ect... mostly used for artistic endeavors.

but for the most part it's a medium brown color. best makers of mdf are Norbord and Ranger. Georgia Pacific makes a good product as well.


powered dyes try Woodcraft.

As far a joe woodwoker vacuum press is concerned. if i took a plane trip and i took my vacupress with me on the plane , and say god forbid the plane crashed, all they would find were two "black boxes" and one odd looking red box named" vacupress". the NTSB would plug it in and find that it still worked.

I do however think it's time to "pimp that press". say a nice NYC power coat black color with a mat stainless steel handle and maybe a blue led on/off switch. polished chrome gauge.


 
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BigRob777

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Joined: 2008-05-26
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Subject : RE: More Newbie Questions
Posted : 2009-06-16 12:30 PM
Post #35519 - In reply to #35517
Wow, water resistent mdf. That sounds awesome. So, are you saying that my press would fall apart? I don't doubt it. I didn't get the cheapest one, but I only paid $600.00, including a 4x8 bag and a big roll of mesh. Thanks Craig.
Rob


 
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Brad

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Subject : RE: More Newbie Questions
Posted : 2009-06-16 2:05 PM
Post #35520 - In reply to #35519
Unless you are really worried about moisture problems or plan to take your vanity into the shower (ha!ha!) I am not sure i would worry too much about the water resitant MDF. I think MDF gets a lot of bad press. If you apply a proper finish and the owner maintains the finish, it holds up very well. Ranger board does seem to get good press, but I usually buy whatever is on the shelf at the hardware store.

As for the Unibond, the mixture ratio is on the container. More harder = faster set, less open time. There was a discussion some time ago where many discussed using heat blankets to speed up the set. I assume you have a small digital scale. I found a small mixer also to use on my cordless drill that is very handy for mixing.

I am not sure your ebony is a problematic species for bond, so PVA may be an option if the piece is not too large.

I toss out my rollers after using. There is a reason they are cheap. I cant imagine wasting time to clean them and if you miss any spots you could wind up with a hard spot on the roller that could lead to a dry spot when you roll adhesive for the next project. I ended up with a few bond problems on a recent project, and it sucks to fix them bubbles when they appear after you start finishing.

I am not sure I would fuss with trying to dye the unibond until you experiment a bit. Honestly, I have not had much problem with bleed through. Sand it off and you could be fine unless you are staining. I cant imagine you are staining ebony.

I think the main disadvantage of the continuous run press will be the life expenctancy of your electric motor. It will burn out quicker. I too really really like my Vacupress vacuum, but Craig did bring up a good point about finishes.

Brad


 
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BigRob777

Posts: 142

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Subject : RE: More Newbie Questions
Posted : 2009-06-16 2:33 PM
Post #35521 - In reply to #35520
Brad,
Thanks, I knew I could count on your advise. I have a friend, who helps me out with a lot of things (I can't rake leaves, cut grass, or anything like that, with my bad back, so he does it for me). I'd love to build a nice coffee table for him, but his kids spill juice and water on his coffee table constantly and it doesn't always get cleaned up right away. Actually, it probably never gets cleaned up right away. They're really rough on furniture, but he does appreciate beautiful wood.

I thought of doing a nice waterfall bubinga, or quilted sapele top and cover it with that hard plexiglass. I can't recall the name, the stuff people said was bullet proof. I thought that I'd heat bend the edges, so it formed a drip edge, but that's not that attractive, especially on the corners. I'm not sure if it's thermoformic like plexi is anyway.

Rob


 
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Paul Kierstead

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Joined: 2008-01-24
Location: Ottawa, ON

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Subject : RE: More Newbie Questions
Posted : 2009-06-16 3:10 PM
Post #35522 - In reply to #35521
Well, not as pretty as a nice lacquer, but much better then Plexiglas:

http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=20029&cat=1,190,42942

Should be pretty much impervious.


 
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BigRob777

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Subject : RE: More Newbie Questions
Posted : 2009-06-16 7:01 PM
Post #35523 - In reply to #35522
I've never used it before, but it should work. Thanks.
Rob


 
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: More Newbie Questions
Posted : 2009-06-17 7:32 PM
Post #35527 - In reply to #35523
Minimum temp about 70 degrees F. If you store the resin in a fridge to lengthen shelf life, give it 24 hours to warm to room temp before mixing with catalyst and gluing veneer.
Several years ago I was pressing some wenge, a very open pore dark brown African wood. Kept getting tiny white spots after sanding the surface and finishing. Eventually realized it was urea formaldehyde that had bled through the pores and dried a lighter color than the wood. Used dye powders from Homestead Finishing (available at Woodcraft) to tint the glue a dark chocolate brown and no more spots. Strongly consider at least one trial run with a piece of the ebony, through all the finishing steps, to make sure all will be well before using a quantity of it, I've not used it, so no experience to share.
My two cents.


 
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BigRob777

Posts: 142

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Subject : RE: More Newbie Questions
Posted : 2009-06-17 10:35 PM
Post #35528 - In reply to #35527
Where's our other pen turner at? ---- Brian???? I cherish your input also.
Thanks,
Rob


 
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Brad

Posts: 87

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Subject : RE: More Newbie Questions
Posted : 2009-06-18 7:58 PM
Post #35531 - In reply to #35523
You definetly need to listen to Dons experience and read some of the woodweb horror stories trying to finish with epoxy. I was reasearching epoxy finishes not long ago, and it sure seems like a bear to work with. It kinda made sense after I thought about it. Thick finish (can be gooey if you mess up) that gets very hard quickly. Now that cant be a good idea. Never tried it, mixed with expensive Ebony veneer = bad combo. This finish seems like it would be best for high traffic bars and boats.

Unless your friend is mixing something unique in his kids cups(just joking), I think you have a pretty common situation. Are you setup to spray waterborne? If so, Target makes some nice products you might want to consider. I have been using the Target EM2000 on a few projects, and eventhough I am a rookie with the gun I am quite impressed how it is turning out. I wouldnt be surprised if good old poly wouldnt work just fine too, but I am not a huge fan of the thick plastic look.

If you want to drag the project to a professional finish shop, Craig mentioned some automotive quality finishes in the satinwood thread you might want to think about too.

Chatty Brad over and out.


 
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
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Subject : RE: More Newbie Questions
Posted : 2009-06-18 7:05 PM
Post #35529 - In reply to #35522
Definitely try this stuff first on scrap. Bar top is a real bear to sand if the coating isn't perfect. It will run and drip on vertical surfaces, . . . Used it for a customer on one project and will never work with it again. Just my two cents.


 
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Paul Kierstead

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Joined: 2008-01-24
Location: Ottawa, ON

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Subject : RE: More Newbie Questions
Posted : 2009-06-18 7:19 PM
Post #35530 - In reply to #35529
Heh, the downside of a largely impervious finish is that it resists the finisher as well...


 
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BigRob777

Posts: 142

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Subject : RE: More Newbie Questions
Posted : 2009-06-19 1:51 AM
Post #35532 - In reply to #35530
I remember the conversation about those auto finishes. I have a friend who used to work for a cabinet shop, doing their finishing work. He recommended a hvlp dewalt spray finish gun. I bought it and still have the high pressure system that I bought years ago (for the quality and priced to fit my budget at the time). I like the hvlp, for clear finishes. I painted my addition with the high pressure one and wouldn't want that kind of splattering with a clear finish. I'll look into all of these suggestions. I bought a gallon of precatalyzed lacquer last year, but it's probably a solid rock by now.

I have to stop posting in the middle of the night. I'm a bit groggy. At any rate, I had heard that water based finishes can have an ill effect on veneer. Is this always the case?

Do you mean target, like the department store? I hope this makes sense. My mind is scrambled still. I had to take a muscle relaxer for my back tonight.

In case I don't post again by Sunday.....HAPPY FATHERS' DAY to all.

Rob


 
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Brad

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Subject : RE: More Newbie Questions
Posted : 2009-06-19 11:40 AM
Post #35533 - In reply to #35532
Here is a link to targets website. The department store, you are a funny guy

http://www.targetcoatings.com/home.html


 
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BigRob777

Posts: 142

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Subject : RE: More Newbie Questions
Posted : 2009-06-19 4:06 PM
Post #35536 - In reply to #35533
Brad,
Got it, thank you. Sorry about last night. My mind was out there.
Rob


 
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: More Newbie Questions
Posted : 2009-06-21 6:33 PM
Post #35548 - In reply to #35532
I've only used water borne finishes, and water borne dyes, on my veneering work and no problems. Water borne can raise grain the first coat but grain raising procedure widely described in literature. After final sanding, wipe thoroughly with damp sponge. After drying, (may be as quick as 15 minutes) lightly sand with same final grit, vacuum and ready for finishing schedule. Practice on scrap solid wood/scrap plywood first to build comfort level.


 
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BigRob777

Posts: 142

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Subject : RE: More Newbie Questions
Posted : 2009-06-21 9:17 PM
Post #35549 - In reply to #35548
Cool, I'm familiar with that method, but I was leary that it would lift the veneer, or cause swelling or shrinkage. I have something made for pens that I can start with. I just checked and all of my questions have been answered. I think I'm ready to start. I have some cheap veneer to play with, though my wife wants me to build an end table, that'll have to wait.

I thought of tracing some ceiling fan blades on some thin mdf, but I am not sure where to find it. I've seen 3/4" stuff, even have a spare sheet, but I don't recall seeing quarter inch stuff. Does harbor freight carry it? I'd think that it would have to come in smaller sheets, so it won't break, when you pick it up.

Thanks,
Rob


 
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: More Newbie Questions
Posted : 2009-06-22 6:43 PM
Post #35552 - In reply to #35549
My local hardwood/hardwood plywood distributor carries 1/4" x 4 x 8 MDF as well as 1/2" and 3/4". Suppliers to cabinet shops, carrying Formica/wilsonart/. . . laminate may also carry 1/4". (Avoid Masonite products, which the big box stores may carry, as it's been reported that Masonite has some type of oil in it that may prevent glue adhesion, unless you've tested and had no problem.) The same distributors may also carry 1/4" baltic birch plywood if that would work for you. I can't recommend baltic birch as a substrate under gloss finish though as I have a sample where the first inner ply was lapped over for about 1/2", leaving a small hump in the surface.


 
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BigRob777

Posts: 142

Joined: 2008-05-26
Location: Newark, DE

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Subject : RE: More Newbie Questions
Posted : 2009-06-22 9:11 PM
Post #35553 - In reply to #35552
Wow, how do you pick up a 4x8 sheet of 1/4" mdf, without breaking it?
Thanks,
Rob
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