Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-02-12 2:48 PM
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BigRob777

Posts: 142

Joined: 2008-05-26
Location: Newark, DE

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Subject : Breather Mesh and veneering a door questions
Posted : 2008-05-27 3:37 PM
Post #34580

Wow, that info compilation is awesome. Another noob question here: I learned what a platen is, but does breather mesh replace a platen, and / or cauls? Also, can you do an inside (hollow core) door in a vacuum bag?
Thank you,
Rob

EDIT IN: By "can you do an inside (hollow core) door", I mean can you veneer it.


 
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craig tufankjian

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Subject : RE: Breather Mesh and veneering a door questions
Posted : 2008-05-27 4:33 PM
Post #34581 - In reply to #34580

Rob,

As I understand it you can not veneer a hollow core door in a veneer press.

I've veneered several solid core doors but never a hollow core. I will be attempting it though.

I believe breather mesh is for radius work.


 
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BigRob777

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Subject : RE: Breather Mesh and veneering a door questions
Posted : 2008-05-27 6:53 PM
Post #34582 - In reply to #34581

What is radius work? Please let me know how your attempt to veneer a hollow core door comes out. I figured I might have to back the pressure down a bit.
Rob


 
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craig tufankjian

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Subject : RE: Breather Mesh and veneering a door questions
Posted : 2008-05-27 7:19 PM
Post #34583 - In reply to #34582

rob,
radius work is curved work or something like curved stair stringers, round door jambs ect....

while i might think that it is possible to press up a hollow core door, I have heard Darryl mention that it can not be done. I was going to use 2 inch rigid foam on both sides of the door to see if it worked.

no veneer .... just dry run to see what happened to the door.


 
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Brian Gray

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Subject : RE: Breather Mesh and veneering a door questions
Posted : 2008-05-27 8:09 PM
Post #34584 - In reply to #34583

//does breather mesh replace a platen, and / or cauls?//

Breather mesh is used to make sure that there are no areas that are isolated from the vacuum...the vacuum will effect to all areas that you wish by using it.

Breather mesh probably should not replace a platen or caul.

It will telegraph the mesh pattern to your veneer (which might look interesting!!!)

Make your sandwich like this, from top to bottom...

Mesh
Caul
Wax Paper
Veneer
Core
Veneer
Wax Paper
Caul
Platen

Also, breather mesh is useful to cover sharp corners of a caul.

If you cover the corners of a caul with breather mesh, you lessen the risk of puncturing the bag on the sharp corner, and you don't have to take the time to round over the corners.

I usually have some small squares of mesh onhand for just this purpose. I will have a single sheet of mesh over the entire project, and then add the squares to the corners to double up the protection.


 
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BigRob777

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Subject : RE: Breather Mesh and veneering a door questions
Posted : 2008-06-13 11:34 PM
Post #34622 - In reply to #34584

Brian,
After reading a lot about bag veneering, your "sandwich" is exactly how I decided to try my first one. Now a tough question. Can you cross-veneer two slices of veneer, without getting warpage? I have a customer who wants to make tags from veneer, but I figured it would be too fragile in a single layer, so I tried the ironing method with dried yellow glue, to cross hatch them and it didn't go over too well. I'll try the bag next, unless there's a reason it won't work. I'm wasting some nice curly anigre veneer in the process.
Thanks,
Rob


 
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Darryl Keil

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Subject : RE: Breather Mesh and veneering a door questions
Posted : 2008-05-27 9:27 PM
Post #34585 - In reply to #34580

Rob,

Although breather mesh can be used in addition to the platen its main purpose is as a platen substitute where the platen cannot be used. Example would be a spiral staircase stringer. Also a curved panel that was purchased rather than made on a form. Just slide the curved panel in the bag with the breather mesh and the bag can suck up to both sides at once for veneering. You would need to still have a caul between the veneer and mesh so the mesh wont imprint on the veneer.

Craig,

As far as hollow core doors go I can almost guarantee it will collapse. The spacing of the cells in the core material is too far apart to withstand any pressure. The problem with a more rigid cover sheet that would span the door is that the skin would not push back up enough to give the veneer a good bond. My experience is that a vacuum press will crush the door like a piece of wonder bread.

Darryl


 
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craig tufankjian

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Subject : RE: Breather Mesh and veneering a door questions
Posted : 2008-05-27 9:44 PM
Post #34587 - In reply to #34585

well.... I guess my I wont be experimenting then. I never liked hollow core doors anyway but I always have clients ask me to supply veneered doors.

I would assume that one would have to make there own hollow core door by making a frame, veneering two door skins first, then filling the frame with your honeycomb product, which I understand is a lot stronger. then applying the two door skins? would this be a better approach?


 
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BigRob777

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Subject : RE: Breather Mesh and veneering a door questions
Posted : 2008-05-27 10:19 PM
Post #34588 - In reply to #34587

Wow, this is an awesome forum. You folks are great. Thanks so much and keep it coming. I'm like a sponge soaking it all up. I guess you have to make the platen yourself? I like the idea for making the panels myself, but I have nothing to make the honeycomb with. I think I'll return my door and buy solid core instead. It's for my veneering / turning shop. My cut shop is in my former garage. Does anyone have a pic of a platen?

Thanks again.
Rob


 
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Brian Gray

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Subject : RE: Breather Mesh and veneering a door questions
Posted : 2008-05-28 6:50 AM
Post #34589 - In reply to #34588

For a platen you can use melamine, and just run it through the tablesaw to cut the grooves. Then round over the corners.

And you don't make honeycomb...you can buy it from our fine host here.


 
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Darryl Keil

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Subject : RE: Breather Mesh and veneering a door questions
Posted : 2008-05-28 7:05 PM
Post #34590 - In reply to #34587

Craig,

You can apply the veneer to the skins before as you said or after the honeycomb panel is made up.

One thing I do to make the process easier is to apply the frame pieces to one of the skins ahead of time. This way you dont have frame, skins and honeycomb all sliding around when you're trying to press it up.

Darryl


 
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BigRob777

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Subject : RE: Breather Mesh and veneering a door questions
Posted : 2008-05-28 7:10 PM
Post #34591 - In reply to #34590

OK, thanks. I think I'll just use a solid core door. The fabrication of a door right now is a bit ambitious for me. Is there a special source for waxed paper, or do you just use the stuff at the supermarket?

I'll pick up some melamine for my platens, thanks.
Rob


 
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ckurak

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Subject : RE: Breather Mesh and veneering a door questions
Posted : 2008-05-28 8:53 PM
Post #34592 - In reply to #34591

Rob,

I have used waxed paper from the supermarket.

However, I usually use 4 mil clear plastic sheeting from places like Home Depot or Lowes. You can often find it in the paint department. I prefer the clear over the black plastic because I can see through it. I prefer plastic over waxed paper because I can cover the entire work piece with a single piece of plastic. This saves valuable time during the glue-up process. Anything that reduces the stress level from the time you start applying glue until the project is under full vacuum is a good thing.

The purpose of either waxed paper or plastic is to prevent the adhesive from gluing the cauls to your work.

Good luck,

Charles


 
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BigRob777

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Subject : RE: Breather Mesh and veneering a door questions
Posted : 2008-05-28 9:44 PM
Post #34593 - In reply to #34592

I'm glad you told me that. I know that David Marks uses plastic to keep the glue from adhering to the caul. I'll check out HD. Thanks.
Rob


 
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Don Stephan

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Subject : RE: Breather Mesh and veneering a door questions
Posted : 2008-05-30 9:25 PM
Post #34596 - In reply to #34593

When you groove your platen, you might want to start with one on the lengthwise centerline, then make additional grooves 6-8" apart. You'll need a properly sized hole (to hold the metal end of the vacuum line) drilled on a groove (ideally on an intersection of grooves) so you might try to plan your cross grooves accordingly.

I'm not able to leave my vacuum press set up, and don't usually press larger panels, so I have about 3 platens, one monster 4' x 8', one about 4' x 4', and one about 3' x 4'.

The nice feature of melamine is glue usually won't stick to the plastic coating, but ideally you're bottom caul will catch any glue drips and not the platen.

One material to consider for cauls is 1/4" "melamine" (which usually is foil coated and not exactly the same as 1/2" and 3/4" melamine). It's relatively light and relatively inexpensive.

I'd certainly suggest getting some inexpensive veneer to work with initially and to gain experience - "backer" veneer is often listed by suppliers, is wide and uniform, and easy to work with. You can cut into narrower strips to practice assembling joints, and don't have to worry about "uh-oh's" with more expensive veneer when starting out.

As said earlier, the dvd's will save countless hours and help make initial experiments much more satisfying, and if time is money . . .




 
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texasthunderwoodwork

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Subject : RE: Breather Mesh and veneering a door questions
Posted : 2008-06-20 9:26 PM
Post #34636 - In reply to #34580

One thing I have found that helps is to invert the veneer and substrate then cover it with the breather mesh. So it looks like this-
Platten
Caul
Veneer
Substrate
Backer Veneer
Breather mesh
Now this only works with flat panels, but it does save having to cut new cauls for different size projects. I have used this method the last seven presses I did, with figured and plain grain species and all has come out good.
There may be some problems with this method, but I havnt encountered them yet.

Dave



 
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Don Stephan

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Subject : RE: Breather Mesh and veneering a door questions
Posted : 2008-06-22 3:47 PM
Post #34640 - In reply to #34636

My preference is always to cover veneer with at least a 1/4" caul. This will help even out the layer of glue between the veneer and substrate because the caul has some inherent stiffness, even at 1/4". Uniform even pressure will be applied to the backer veneer in your example but if there is for example a thicker pool of glue in the middle of the substrate breather mesh will not level it out, just conform to it. In that case you might have a noticeable bulge under the veneer after the glue cures. You are right that when pressing simultaneously both sides of a piece you have two cut a top caul to fit.

Placing breather mesh directly on your veneer might also leave dents and lines pressed into the surface of the veneer.


 
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BigRob777

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Subject : RE: Breather Mesh and veneering a door questions
Posted : 2008-06-30 12:14 AM
Post #34650 - In reply to #34640

Thanks Don,
I've been reading up on the subject and came to that conclusion. I will use it for the top of the caul though. I will buy a more substantial piece to go under the caul.

I'm just back from vacation and can't remember all of the terminology.
Rob


 
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Brad

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Subject : RE: Breather Mesh and veneering a door questions
Posted : 2008-07-21 7:57 PM
Post #34751 - In reply to #34650

Instead of solid wood for the core of a door you could use rigid insulation. The pink is rated for 20psi (10% compression at that) and it comes in much greater strengths, but it is not cost effective at all. If you want it to adhere, you will need to use a different glue, but I will leave that to someone else to reply. Lots of SIP (Structural Insulated Panel) panel manuf do this for their wall panels.

Brad


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