Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-09-09 11:09 AM
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len walko

Posts: 5

Joined: 2004-01-06
Location: Brush Prairie Wa.

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Subject : flattening question
Posted : 2004-01-25 12:57 PM
Post #31227
After watching the video and searching the forum I have a question. I will be flattening some maple burl, and useing it immediately after flattening. Will the yellow glue in the flattening solution have any effect on the final finish? And if it will be used right away can the veneer be flattened without the glue added.Thanks!!! Len


 
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Brian Gray

Posts: 339

Joined: 2004-01-21
Location: Sandusky, OH

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Subject : RE: flattening question
Posted : 2004-01-25 4:55 PM
Post #31228 - In reply to #31227
I've used a couple of solutions for flattening....

One is a mixture of water, yellow glue, and glycerine....the other is just water and glycerine.....I haven't noticed any difference between the two in the final finish.


 
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Tom Salisbury

 
Subject : RE: flattening question
Posted : 2004-02-25 3:12 AM
Post #31313 - In reply to #31228
BDo you have the recipes for these flattening solutions? I am in need of flattening several different species of veneer I got off Ebay but have been waiting until I could find the recipe for the glycerin solution.

Happy trials to you . . . until we meet again.
Thomas E. Salisbury
Spirit Horse Guitar Works
Lawyer & Public Defender
522 N. 14th St. #272
Ponca City, OK 74601

\Email: tomlaw@cableone.net



 
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Baldman68

 
Subject : RE: flattening question
Posted : 2004-12-30 7:14 PM
Post #31944 - In reply to #31228
Can anyone tell me where to buy Glycerin? I was told at a drug store, but I can't seem to find it. I looked on Drugstore.com, and still nothing. Is it sold as just plain old Glycerin, or do I need to buy GLycerin Soap?


 
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Darryl Keil

Posts: 1455

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: flattening question
Posted : 2005-01-02 7:06 PM
Post #31953 - In reply to #31944
Baldman,

I can get it in a regular drug store here in Maine. Glycerin soap is not the same thing.

If you end up having no success we do have a flattening solution that we carry called GF-20. It has glycerin in it and can be used in the flattening formula I recommend. You just substitute the alcohol and glycerin with the GF-20.

Sincerely
Darryl Keil


 
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Baldman

 
Subject : RE: flattening question
Posted : 2005-01-08 5:06 PM
Post #31977 - In reply to #31953
That would be great. I couldn't find GF-20 on the web site, can you send me a direct link?

THanks!



 
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Darryl Keil

Posts: 1455

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: flattening question
Posted : 2005-01-09 5:16 PM
Post #31979 - In reply to #31977
Baldman,

GF-20 is one of those products that we sort of carry on the side when people ask for it, so its not listed anywhere.

Just call us at 207-725-0935 and we can send you some.

Sincerely
Darryl Keil


 
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Carl Morrell

 
Subject : RE: flattening question
Posted : 2004-01-26 5:27 PM
Post #31230 - In reply to #31227
As long as the flattening solution thread is opened....

Anyone see the back of a recnt Fine Woodworking? The solution includes Glue/Alcohol/Glycerin as well as FLOUR? What does the flour do?




 
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Darryl Keil

Posts: 1455

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: flattening question
Posted : 2004-02-25 8:41 PM
Post #31315 - In reply to #31227
Here is the flattening solution I have used with great success. Never had a problem with the glue in the solution affecting any staining or finishing.

And Carl, I have no idea why anyone would add flour.

Sincerely
Darryl Keil

VENEER FLATTENING FORMULA


Mix Together:

2 parts white or yellow glue
3 parts water
1 part glycerin
1 part denatured alcohol



1. Mix all components together thoroughly and apply to both sides of the veneer liberally.

2. Let soak for a minute or two

3. Place veneer between fiberglass window screen (both sides) and add 2-3 layers of
newspaper on top of the screen. You may continue by adding more newspaper, screen,
veneer, etc., stacking as high as you like. Flip each veneer end for end so the wavy parts
are not all in the same spot.

4. Place this "sandwich" in your veneer press with a caul on top (1/4" minimum.) and
apply full pressure.

5. Change the newspaper 3 times the first day and leave under pressure overnight.

6. On the second day remove the sandwich from the press and take away the screen, it is
no longer needed, as the veneer will not stick to the newspaper anymore.

7. Change the newspaper 3 times this day but do not put the sandwich in the press, just
place weight on top of the caul to hold the stack down. It is easy to think this second day
is unnecessary since the veneer will feel fairly dry, but it is not dry enough to press. This
extra day is important for good final results.

8. On the third day the veneer is ready to use. If you do not use it immediately the veneer
will stay flat for months provided a board is placed on top of the veneer stack, apply light
pressure. Newspaper between the veneer is unnecessary at this point


 
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : Veneer on Melamine
Posted : 2004-04-03 6:44 PM
Post #31413 - In reply to #31315
Not sure if this will kick the discussion back to the top, but worth a try.

Is there a shelf life for the flattening solution? Don


 
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Darryl Keil

Posts: 1455

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: Veneer on Melamine
Posted : 2004-04-04 11:18 AM
Post #31416 - In reply to #31413
Don,

Whenever you post a message the program always brings it back to the top.

About your question on flattening solutions shelf life, I've never had a problem with it. I have used solution that is three or four years old with fine results. The only thing I have noticed is that the yellow glue settles to the bottom and you have to really stir it aggressively to get it all mixed up. I suppose if I couldn't get the yellow glue to mix in properly I might throw it away, though.

Sincerely
Darryl Keil


 
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emanuel leimanis

Posts: 8

Joined: 2003-07-07
Location: Richmond, B.C., Canada

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Subject : RE: flattening question
Posted : 2004-08-03 2:17 PM
Post #31694 - In reply to #31315
First I would like to say thank you for the Vacuum Pressing systems you provide, I have a 4 x 8 frame press, and a big thanks for this forum, its provided tremendous information and support.

Now to my questions.

I am in the process of flattening about a dozen sheets 44" x 32" of Honduran Mahogany crotch. It was quite buckled and twisted and I used your formula for the flattening solution and I was amazed at how well it has worked.

I have left the sheets in the press longer than you recommend, just easier on space at the time, now in total 3 days, changing the papers 3 times a day. Any problem in doing this? Everything feels dry, but how can I be sure? I have a "pin type" moisture meter, can this be used? How deep into the veneer do the pins need to be to be accurate? Even the colour of the veneer is returning close the the starting colour as it become quite a bit darker with the solution applied.

This is my first time working with crotch veneer and I mostly use a cold press glue, TiteBond, primarily to avoid bleed through in Cherry. I have supply of the light and dark Unibond also. Do you believe the greater strength of the Unibond is necessary for about 20" x 20" panel of the crotch? Is bleedthrough a significant problem in a crotch veneer? Will the flattening solution and process reduce any bleed through?

Thanks


Emanuel Leimanis


 
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Darryl Keil

Posts: 1455

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: flattening question
Posted : 2004-08-03 8:09 PM
Post #31695 - In reply to #31694
Emanuel,

You really can't over do flattening your crotch veneer. As long as you continue to change the paper it will only get drier. Leaving it in the press without changing the paper can cause mold if left in too long. A pin style moisture meter is fine. Put 4 or 5 sheets together when testing. If you really want to control the flatness as you finish it off, take the veneer out of the press for an hour then put it back in for a couple more, then repeat again like this until your satified that it is staying flat even when it sits out for hours.

Absolutely do not use a PVA glue on mahogany crotch, it will not stop the fizzuring and checking that happens with crotch. You really need the rigidity of urea resin glue for this veneer. With mahogany crotch you will always get bleed through in the center flame. The flattening formula will greatly reduce this.

Sincerely
Darryl Keil


 
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Larry Root

 
Subject : RE: flattening question
Posted : 2005-01-03 6:13 AM
Post #31954 - In reply to #31315
Never having done it, I'm just speculating; but could the flour be added to seal the veneer and reduce bleed-through?


 
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Geary Gaston

Posts: 1

Joined: 2006-10-21

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Subject : RE: flattening question & color newspaper print
Posted : 2006-10-21 2:26 PM
Post #33416 - In reply to #31315
Mylocal paper now uses color on almost every page. Is there any danger of the color ink used in the newspaper coming off and staining the veneer during the flattening process?

Geary



 
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: flattening question & color newspaper print
Posted : 2006-10-21 8:22 PM
Post #33417 - In reply to #33416
By using fiberglas screening for the first couple days the paper doesn't come in contact with the veneer while the latter is wet enough to possibly transfer ink. But just to be safe, try a small test sample.

Another option is to ask the plant where the newspaper is printed for a "tail end" - the small amount of unprinted paper at the end of the roll when they change to a new, full roll.


 
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Darryl Keil

Posts: 1455

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: flattening question & color newspaper print
Posted : 2006-10-21 9:53 PM
Post #33418 - In reply to #33416
Don & Geary,

I flattened some veneer for a veneering class a couple of years ago and found that even with the fiberglass screen the color did bleed through onto the veneer. Don's recommendation of the newspaper end rolls is what I do now. There's a surprising amount of newsprint on one of these rolls which should last you for years. My local newspaper gives them away for free.

Sincerely
Darryl Keil


 
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Scott

Posts: 31

Joined: 2006-08-23
Location: New Hampshire

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Subject : RE: flattening question & color newspaper print
Posted : 2006-10-24 3:10 PM
Post #33421 - In reply to #33418



 
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Scott

Posts: 31

Joined: 2006-08-23
Location: New Hampshire

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Subject : RE: flattening question & color newspaper print
Posted : 2006-10-24 3:12 PM
Post #33422 - In reply to #33418
I simply put a layer of paper towels on as the last layer closest to the veneer. This stops the print from transfering onto the veneer. I have never had a problem using this method.
Scott
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