Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-09-09 11:09 AM
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hahns

Posts: 10

Joined: 2009-07-10

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Subject : veneering speakers
Posted : 2009-07-10 9:20 AM
Post #35602
hello,

I was hoping some one might be able to help me understand the best way to veneer the top of a speaker. It seems straight forward, and I'm fairly good at veneering straight panels in my vacu-press. However, when I place the speaker in the bag so that the top is "up" the bag forms around it with the seems at the middle of the speaker which causes the presses dowel and plastic "C" clamp to bend a bit and leak, which means their is no good vaccumm. I've seen articles about making custom sized bags but I don't know how to avoid the seems ending up in the middle and the dowel and "C" clamp from distorting. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.


 
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Brian Gray

Posts: 339

Joined: 2004-01-21
Location: Sandusky, OH

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Subject : RE: veneering speakers
Posted : 2009-07-10 10:21 AM
Post #35603 - In reply to #35602
If the speakers aren't really huge, you might just be better with conventional clamping.


 
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hahns

Posts: 10

Joined: 2009-07-10

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Subject : RE: veneering speakers
Posted : 2009-07-10 10:30 AM
Post #35604 - In reply to #35603
They aren't really huge, but they have an angle on the top of the front baffle. I suppose I could build a caul to match the angle. If I design a platen that matches the angle how would I go about clamping? Any recommendations on how many clamps per square inch? I have never used traditional clamps on veneer before.


 
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BigRob777

Posts: 142

Joined: 2008-05-26
Location: Newark, DE

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Subject : RE: veneering speakers
Posted : 2009-07-10 12:57 PM
Post #35605 - In reply to #35604
Hahns,
Welcome to the forum. Short and sweet---a picture is worth a thousand words. I'm really visually oriented, so a picture would be very helpful to me. Not that I have an answer anyway, but I could see what you mean, and better understand the answers of others.
Thanks. I'm really enthralled by this forum.
Rob


 
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hahns

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Subject : RE: veneering speakers
Posted : 2009-07-10 1:48 PM
Post #35606 - In reply to #35605
There is a picture on my web site but the site is also in a nascent state and isn't working 100% yet. If you follow the link you may have to wait a bit for the pictures to load, it will then be listed under diamondmini. That category has a bunch of pictures of the speaker showing the top angle and the poor first attempt at veneering.

http://buildyourownaudio.com/pics/index.php?option=com_oziogallery&Itemid=53




 
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: veneering speakers
Posted : 2009-07-10 4:30 PM
Post #35608 - In reply to #35602
What are the sizes of your vacuum bag, grooved platen and speaker?


 
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hahns

Posts: 10

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Subject : RE: veneering speakers
Posted : 2009-07-10 4:46 PM
Post #35611 - In reply to #35608
the bag is 49" x 97". The speaker is about 2' tall and the platten I can re-build to what ever size is needed. Is there a ratio I should be looking at for the speaker to bag?


 
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Paul Kierstead

Posts: 39

Joined: 2008-01-24
Location: Ottawa, ON

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Subject : RE: veneering speakers
Posted : 2009-07-10 4:36 PM
Post #35610 - In reply to #35602
If I understand the problem correctly, a *smaller* platen should give the bag more room to go up over the speaker and stop the opening from being pulled .. open. Just thinking, I haven't tried it.

As well, you can make sure the bag is "oriented" the right way by encouraging it to go the way you want while the vacuum is coming up (down?)


 
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hahns

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Subject : RE: veneering speakers
Posted : 2009-07-10 4:48 PM
Post #35612 - In reply to #35610
Thanks Paul,
That's probably what Don was suggesting too. I will try it this weekend and post the results.


 
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BigRob777

Posts: 142

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Location: Newark, DE

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Subject : RE: veneering speakers
Posted : 2009-07-10 7:36 PM
Post #35613 - In reply to #35612
Pretty sharp. It looks like cherry. It's way beyond my skill. I'll keep watching for answers.
Rob


 
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hahns

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Subject : RE: veneering speakers
Posted : 2009-07-11 1:31 PM
Post #35616 - In reply to #35613
Thanks for the kind words Rob, and good eye, that is in deed a curly Cherry veneer.

Don and Paul,

so I tried placing the speaker in the press with out a platten, a dry run to test to see if a platten of the same width as the base would solve my issue. It looked good at the begining but as the vacuum evacuated most of the air out of the bag, the cardboard dowel started to bow around the side of the speaker to the point of almost breaking, forcing me to stop the press.
Back to the drawing board



 
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Darryl Keil

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Subject : RE: veneering speakers
Posted : 2009-07-12 2:38 PM
Post #35619 - In reply to #35616
Hahns,

Help me out here, explain this cardboard dowel and what its used for with the speakers.

I looked through your other posts on this thread and a few of your pictures and didnt see anything about this cardboard dowel.

Darryl Keil


 
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hahns

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Subject : RE: veneering speakers
Posted : 2009-07-13 11:18 AM
Post #35622 - In reply to #35619
The cardboard dowel is specific to the type of press I am using. When you close the bag, it is fastened with a cardboard dowel and a plastic "C" clamp that goes around it. You'll have to forgive me, I'm new to this and assumed that this was the standard in vacuum bags. Here is a link to the Compact 100 press that I am using that might help to illustrate what the bags "locking" mechanism looks like.

http://www.vacupress.com/products2.htm#compact100

When I place the speaker in the bag, I'm putting it in the middle so the bag has enough room to go up and over the height of the speaker. This causes the bottom of the bag to wrap around the side walls of the speaker and in doing so the clamp bends.

Thanks for all of your help so far.




 
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hahns

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Subject : RE: veneering speakers
Posted : 2009-07-13 11:22 AM
Post #35623 - In reply to #35622
Opps. Daryl, just realized who I was talking to. I guess I don't have to explain how the press works to you. But hopefully it will help with anyone else who might be following this thread with a similar question.




 
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: veneering speakers
Posted : 2009-07-13 7:18 PM
Post #35626 - In reply to #35623
Even the big guy can use some reminding from time to time, so don't sweat. He's too nice a guy anyway.
I've pressed "boxes" before lying on one side. Hope I can explain my process.

Assume your speaker box is 12" x 12" x 24" tall. I'll cut a special grooved platen perhaps 18" x 30" and place in the middle of the bag. A clear path is needed to the vacuum hose, so I lay a piece of Evacunet inside the bag that reaches from the vacuum hose nipple several inches onto the grooved platen. The Evacunet doesn't have to be more than say 6" wide, but does have to reach from the hose to at least one groove in the platen. Fold the ends of the sealed bag up over the table so that the upper surface of the bag can drape down the box.

Keep in mind that a vacuum of 22-25" will crush the speaker box if the void is not filled. Layers of styrofoam work, as well as the swell bag gizmo available from Vacu Press (which I've used several times).

Also, you'll want to elevate the box with a piece of 1/2 or 3/4" mdf or plywood if you are pressing a horizontal surface. Under vacuum the bag will flare out at the bottom of the speaker box, meaning no "clamping" pressure is applied to the bottom of teh horizontal surface.

Don


 
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craig tufankjian

Posts: 308

Joined: 2004-02-01
Location: syracuse ny 13208

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Subject : RE: veneering speakers
Posted : 2009-07-14 8:07 AM
Post #35635 - In reply to #35626
My solution is a little, well.... different

http://www.bang-olufsen.com/loudspeakers



 
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hahns

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Subject : RE: veneering speakers
Posted : 2009-07-14 8:16 PM
Post #35640 - In reply to #35626
Don,

Thank you very much for your suggestions. I hadn't heard of evacunet before but it sounds like I will have to try it. I'll try your technique this weekend to see if I can get the clamp to a point where it doesn't bend too much.

Daryl,
You were correct, it is actually a plastic dowel, my mistake.


 
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Darryl Keil

Posts: 1455

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: veneering speakers
Posted : 2009-07-14 10:29 AM
Post #35637 - In reply to #35623
hahns,

The closure can take a fair amount of bending without harm so dont be concerned if that happens. Usually the closure will pop off before it gets permanently bent.

Don has explained how to slide your platen in further to avoid this if its bending the closure too much.

One thing, the Compact 100 you refer to comes with a plastic rod that the closure snaps over but you mention a cardboard one. Is it really cardboard?
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