Darryl Keil Last Activity 2024-10-10 3:42 PM
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nate graham

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Joined: 2015-03-10
Location: durand, mi

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Subject : Veneering angles speaker boxes
Posted : 2020-01-22 4:27 PM
Post #37876
I’m hoping to get some direction, this set of speaker enclosures we’re working on I couldn’t veneer the panels then assemble the design didn’t allow for that approach as you hopefully can see from the attached pics. My strategy for the top, bottom , sides and back is a lot of clamps and cauls, but the angled parts have me stumped as to how I can get adequate pressure, any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks
Attached file : F037921F-574B-4E9E-9FFD-6884E4747588.jpeg (23KB - 15 downloads)
Attached file : 74CAFDE4-7E71-4558-9DA3-87D26B789EAD.jpeg (21KB - 10 downloads)



 
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: Veneering angles speaker boxes
Posted : 2020-01-22 7:42 PM
Post #37877 - In reply to #37876
It is not clear to me how one would dress the veneer seams where the edges are not at 90 degrees, if veneer is applied after the speaker case is assembled.


 
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nate graham

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Location: durand, mi

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Subject : RE: Veneering angles speaker boxes
Posted : 2020-01-23 5:57 AM
Post #37878 - In reply to #37877
If I understand you correctly, addressing where the veneer meets let’s say from the angle to the flat isn’t a real big challenge, we run into this on the other models we build, I’ll attach a pic for clarity, that section is normally built as one panel then I veneer the 4” section and roll over the 1/2” part in the press, then carefully line up the big section and press that, if this makes any sense with minimal pics and videos, this set the angled sections are roughly 4” wide by 49” long with no easy way to apply pressure all the way down with out some extremely large clamps, I feel if I was to somehow try to stuff these in a bag I would get bad results with alignment ( they would squirrel around to much) so I guess my question is more of an adhesive question. Would hammer veneering this be a good viable option or and iron on type method, and would it be good long term, this set will be living in China, not an easy thing if my phone rings on a call back
Thanks
Attached file : 9204F034-4F69-4372-B964-16E0159A3C1B.jpeg (38KB - 10 downloads)



 
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Aaron Paris

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Subject : RE: Veneering angles speaker boxes
Posted : 2020-01-23 12:29 PM
Post #37879 - In reply to #37878
I would do the iron on method. I've done this many times on chamfered edges. I apply a small amount of glue first to soak into the MDF, let it dry and then rough it up with sandpaper. Then apply your glue to the surface a little a time as you work and iron along the length of the piece.


 
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nate graham

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Subject : RE: Veneering angles speaker boxes
Posted : 2020-01-23 6:10 PM
Post #37880 - In reply to #37879
I think I’m leaning towards that method, I’m going to do some experimentation tomorrow and see how it goes, one thing that has me a bit worried is splitting due to the heat, we’re using olive ash burl which is prone to splitting but I’m hoping that the flattened with help control it,


 
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Don Stephan

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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: Veneering angles speaker boxes
Posted : 2020-01-23 7:29 PM
Post #37881 - In reply to #37880
Several decades ago I was asked to make a pair of tapered rectangular stands, to be covered with alive ash burl. These were the first open-bottom boxes (if you will) I was asked to veneer, and didn't it would be compatible with a 4' x 8' vacuum bag. I had read an article in Fine Woodworking by a respected author saying he had been successful applying a coat of yellow glue to a substrate, letting it dry, laying a sheet of raw veneer over it, and then re-activatig the glue by ironing the veneer onto the surface. It seemed to work very well, but I had a book matched seam running up the veneer sheet on all four surfaces. The next day the veneer was firmly attached everywhere but several of the book matches had opened up perhaps 1/8". After filling the gaps I spent days trying to paint over the filler with shellac and dry pigments. I've veneered a number of similar stands since then, but always used a vacuum bag without a similar problem.

I had flattened the veneer using flattening solution, and perhaps the veneer was not as completely dry as it could have been. I have vacuum pressed veneer I had to flatten a number of times since then using plastic resin adhesive, without seams opening.

By all means feel free to experiment with ironing on your veneer, but I will not iron on veneer again.
Attached file : Sculpture Stands Olive Ash Burl Thumbnail.jpg (3KB - 11 downloads)



 
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Aaron Paris

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Subject : RE: Veneering angles speaker boxes
Posted : 2020-01-24 6:02 AM
Post #37882 - In reply to #37881
To high of heat will definitely split your veneer. I usually set the iron around 350-375 degrees. I also glue any joints I have and veneer tape them as well(they've split if I don't). I don't like doing this method on larger surfaces but sometimes you have no choice. I've done pommel sapele,mappa burl,camphor burl and many others. The sapele was the only one I had split within the veneer it self.
I don't like the method of reheating the applied glue( no offence Don). I tried that the first go around. The heat has to travel through the veneer to reactivate the glue causing alot of heat on the veneer surface before the glue can hold it in place. And I felt I didn't get as good of a bond between the veneer and the substrate.
Like Don said try some samples,see what works in your situation. Good luck!


 
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Darryl Keil

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Subject : RE: Veneering angles speaker boxes
Posted : 2020-01-24 4:28 PM
Post #37883 - In reply to #37880
I’ll throw my two cents in here and say, if you have a glue pot, are familiar with hammer veneering and hide glue I’d go that route. Hammer veneering is a tried and true method, just needs some practice to get the feel of it.


 
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Don Stephan

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Subject : RE: Veneering angles speaker boxes
Posted : 2020-01-24 7:42 PM
Post #37884 - In reply to #37883
Not surprising, Dr. D was ahead of me. This afternoon I thought of hammer veneering with hot hide glue. Hot hide glue gels first as it cools to a certain temperature, which grabs the two surfaces. "Hammering" actually is pressing/pushing excess glue towards the edges, which is removing excess glue, if not too cool, and pressing the two surfaces together. As moisture leaves the glue and it hardens it shrinks, pulling the joint tighter.

Definitely a learning curve, and I would strongly suggest raising the thermostat for a few hours first to warm the substrate and veneer. I would also suggest considering having at least one additional person for the practice and glue up - the hot glue needs to be spread quickly, and hammering tires the arms quickly.


 
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nate graham

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Subject : RE: Veneering angles speaker boxes
Posted : 2020-01-30 7:35 AM
Post #37889 - In reply to #37884
I may give that a go, the areas that can’t be clamped are about 4” by 49”. Just curious, should I treat the MDF end grain some how first, to close the cells,
I’d like to thank everybody for there participation in this discussion also.


 
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Darryl Keil

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Subject : RE: Veneering angles speaker boxes
Posted : 2020-01-30 9:17 AM
Post #37890 - In reply to #37889
If you are going to use hide glue and the hammer veneering technique, just brush a coat of hide glue on the MDF and let it dry. That should size the MDF end grain nicely.


 
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nate graham

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Joined: 2015-03-10
Location: durand, mi

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Subject : RE: Veneering angles speaker boxes
Posted : 2020-01-30 3:14 PM
Post #37891 - In reply to #37890
Ok, I kinda thought that but since I have limited knowledge of hammer veneering I thought I would ask, thanks


 
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: Veneering angles speaker boxes
Posted : 2020-01-30 7:18 PM
Post #37892 - In reply to #37891
Just to clarify, my understanding is that hammer veneering works only with hot hide glue, not Franklin Hide Glue or Old Brown.
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