Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-09-09 11:09 AM
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Don Stephan

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Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : Curving Shop-cut Stringing
Posted : 2008-06-08 11:12 AM
Post #34607
I would like to be able to cut stringing from raw commercial veneer (approx 1/40th" thick?), 1/16th" to 1/8" wide, and bend it around the narrow ends of an elliptical inlay 8" long by 4 1/2" wide (overall dimensions, NOT the major and minor axes).

The stringing is easy to make with a depth gauge inspired by Paul Schurch. Joint one edge of a piece of mdf. Clamp a sacrificial scrap to the side of the table saw fence and with the blade below the table top set the fence to almost completely cover the blade. (A flat top grind works best, but a dado set chipper likely would work also.) Turn on the saw and raise the blade 1/4" or so, then turn off the saw. Re-adjust the fence so that only the desired width of the blade will be exposed (1/16", 1/8", of any other width). Raise the table saw blade about 1/32" above the table top, and then saw this rabbet into the edge of the jointed MDF. In similar fashion, make additional rabbets of different widths on the other three edges. Joint one edge of a 2nd piece of mdf to be the veneer saw fence. To make the stringing, first make sure the edge of the veneer is perfectly straight. Place the depth gauge over the edge of the veneer so that it is covered to the desired stringing width. Without the gauge or veneer moving, place the saw fence (mdf) against the depth guage (mdf)and remove the latter, so that only the desired stringing is exposed. Cut the stringing free with the veneer saw and repeat as often as needed. This technique can also be used to cut cross banding. Clear, easy-to-follow instructions on sharpening a veneer saw can be found in Paul Schurch's first video, "Decorative Veneering", or in his article of the same name in Fine Woodworking #164.

I've seen old inlay with a narrow band of maple or holly bent this sharply but haven't been able to think of a technique to do so. For several reasons, I'd prefer not to scroll saw a narrow elliptical band. I've seen descriptions of resawing 1/16" wide veneer from lumber, so that the stringing would be on edge rather than flat, and then softening the veneer with heat and/or water, but this limits veneer choices to woods locally available as lumber.

I've been able to bend stringing on the flat along gentle curves, say an arc of a circle of radius 24", but not like the ellipse above. Very narrow stringing will bend to tighter curves, but I don't know how good a "built-up" 1/8" band of three or four or five strips of very narrow stringing would look. Has anyone found a way to achieve this?

Thanks.


 
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Brian Gray

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Subject : RE: Curving Shop-cut Stringing
Posted : 2008-06-08 1:19 PM
Post #34608 - In reply to #34607
Does the stringing absolutely have to be that wide?

If you built up multiple pieces, that would be an interesting look, but probably a very complicated assembly.

If you wanted to make something that is meant for production, you could make eliptical templates from mdf, and cut all mating parts with a router.


 
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BigRob777

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Location: Newark, DE

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Subject : RE: Curving Shop-cut Stringing
Posted : 2008-06-08 2:42 PM
Post #34609 - In reply to #34608
I'd love to be able to understand this technical stuff, but for me a picture is worth a thousand words. I really want to learn and though I'm far from ready for this type of procedure, I'd like to understand it.
Thanks,
Rob


 
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Don Stephan

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Subject : RE: Curving Shop-cut Stringing
Posted : 2008-06-12 7:29 PM
Post #34611 - In reply to #34609
Rob:
Stringing as I understand the term is basically thin strips of veneer, perhaps 1/16" to 1/8" wide. When two or more pieces of stringing are used together, if I understand his terminology, Paul Schurch calls the combination "filletti" (sp?). You can see some examples at
ww.stephanwoodworking.com
then click the link for "Display Cabinets, Stands and Tables." On that page, click the link for the WWII Commando Knife cabinet. I would call the band of black around the maple insert "stringing" although technically that might not be a correct use of the term. I cut this black oval on the scroll saw in a stack with the maple, and the oval is not very true. You can see this in the closeup of the oval in the middle of the page. At the bottom of the page is a closeup of the corner which shows a three piece filleti of two black and one white stringing. These I cut with a veneer saw as described at the beginning of this thread. In these three pieces, the grain is running lengthwise.

Again on my home page, if you click the "Decorative Veneering" link and at the bottom of that page click the "Details" link for the mahogany veneer table with "three part inlay banding" you'll see a "filletti" band consisting of two lengthwise narrow black stringing with a wider cross band padouk "stringing" in a pseudo greek key pattern. The design here was for quarter circles of the three part banding at the corners, but after cutting out the first quarter circle in the mahogany I found the inlay wouldn't bend sharp enough for that. I had to come up quickly with an alternative and decided on the pseudo greek key.

Hope these pictures help.


 
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Darryl Keil

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Subject : RE: Curving Shop-cut Stringing
Posted : 2008-06-09 9:40 AM
Post #34610 - In reply to #34607
Don,

I think you're going to be hard pressed to get commercial thickness veneer to do what you want here.

The heat, soak or hot pipe bending is your answer for the radiuses you want to achieve. This of course requires thicker material to make happen. One idea you may want to try is gluing the chosen veneer to a thicker piece of solid and then try the hot pipe bending technique. The question will be, what happens to the glue line with all the heating. You might find just soaking the strips and pre-bending them without heat may work enough to make the radius. Obviously this idea would not work with yellow or white glue.

Give this a try and tell us what your results are.

Darryl


 
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Don Stephan

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Subject : RE: Curving Shop-cut Stringing
Posted : 2008-06-12 7:41 PM
Post #34612 - In reply to #34610
Once again, my imagination was running way too rampant.

The burr in my saddle was my inability to cut perfectly consistent and smooth ellipses on the scroll saw.

The best solution I've been able to devise, given the limitations confirmed by above responses, is to use the "chisel" method of Yoda Paul Schurch, as I have been able to cut fair curves if following a pattern.

I'll try making the elliptical inlay slightly oversize. I'll create smooth ellipses of the desired circumference in TurboCad and print, one for the circumference of the elliptical inlay and one slightly larger for the surrounding "stringing" or band. Each of these drawings I'll stick to chipboard (the grey cardboard backer of pads of ruled paper) with spray adhesive and carefully cut out with the chisel. If necessary, I can always fair these cardboard patterns with a sanding block. I'll use the smaller pattern to trim the inlay to final size. I'll use the now elliptical inlay as the pattern to cut the inner circumference of the stringing or banding, and finally the larger pattern to cut the outer circumference. Several extra steps, and not nearly as easy as my wild dream of using pre-cut stringing, but the result hopefully will look better than my scroll saw ellipses.

As Yoda Schurch points out in his first video, if the stringing or banding was cross grain, I could stab it repeatedly to cut into very small segments to go around a curve, but this wouldn't work with the grain running lengthwise. Maybe if I learned how to bend the space-time continuum . . .


 
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craig tufankjian

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Subject : RE: Curving Shop-cut Stringing
Posted : 2008-06-12 8:14 PM
Post #34613 - In reply to #34612
don,

is this for a customer or for yourself?


 
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Don Stephan

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Subject : RE: Curving Shop-cut Stringing
Posted : 2008-06-12 8:49 PM
Post #34614 - In reply to #34613
Customer. Bet your laser cuts a pretty fair curve, eh?


 
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craig tufankjian

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Subject : RE: Curving Shop-cut Stringing
Posted : 2008-06-12 9:22 PM
Post #34616 - In reply to #34614
thats was going to be my suggestion Don. Something that small is laser work. do you have CAD?

if so mac or microsoft user


 
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BigRob777

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Subject : RE: Curving Shop-cut Stringing
Posted : 2008-06-12 8:58 PM
Post #34615 - In reply to #34613
Holy smokes. That kind of quality work is way beyond my current scope, but some day, I might be able to get in that ball park. As a complete veneering beginner, I'm totally amazed by the work I see here. I know I'm in the right place.I'm still back here:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/BigRob777/DSCN1223.jpg
and here:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y179/BigRob777/DSCN1225.jpg

I've only done two veneering projects. Oe was a kitchen counter/sidebar and the other were two trays, from some poor looking mottle makore' with Honduras mahogany. I can't find a pic.
Rob



 
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Don Stephan

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Subject : RE: Curving Shop-cut Stringing
Posted : 2008-06-13 8:42 PM
Post #34620 - In reply to #34615
Rob:
Don't short your abilities - I have no artistic sense and only pretty mechanical skills. Someone like Paul Schurch (www.schurchwoodworking.com, Darryl Keil and Brian Gray have artistic talent as well as mechanical skills.
Get a copy of the Schurch "Decorative Veneering" article from FWW (listed in the veneering notes at www.stephanwoodworking.com/downloads. I was very skeptical but just by following his article I was able to make a passable decoratively veneered panel the first time. The commando knife profile was scroll sawing, but the rest of the veneering in the links I gave you are simple extensions of the Schurch article.
I don't feel there are good books on today's veneering practices, but the first videos by Keil and Schurch are first rate learning tools and references, better than most books would be anyway. With those two videos and a willingness to try some things, you could do everything I've done in short order. And when you have questions (and we ALL do, except perhaps Yodas Keil and Schurch) this is a great resource.
Tools to get started on decorative veneering, at least my recommendation, would be a fine knife or the chisel from Schurch, perhaps his straightedge as well, and a veneer saw. The ideal gluing setup I think is a vacuum bag and pump, and that can be several months' allowance. I started (and still have) a homemade vacuum pump system, but I'd never recommend that approach or do it again myself. Too much fooling around and constant fussing getting everything to work for my taste (all the Joe Woodworker lovers hold your ire, just expressing my opinion and not gospel).


 
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BigRob777

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Subject : RE: Curving Shop-cut Stringing
Posted : 2008-06-13 10:00 PM
Post #34621 - In reply to #34620
Actually, I have one of Joe Woodworker's pumps (I didn't build it, as I have no love for that sort of thing). It was preassembled, mostly and it cost me 6 months allowance, including the bag. He was out of the 4' X 8' bag, so he sent me a free 2' X 4' bag, to hold me until the big one came in. I was thinking of getting a small one anyway, so I was pretty happy about it. It looks like a great set-up. I opted for the higher-end press, as I plan to do a lot of veneering.

I'm usually pretty fast on the uptake, but your work does look like it's complicated. I spent $700.oo on veneer, so I'm going to have to hold off on the videos for a month, or so, but I did get two books (I bought them before I got here) and they both talk about our Darryl Keil. One was "Veneering, A Foundation Course", by Mike Burton and the other is "Veneering, Marquetry and Inlay", which is a compilation of a bunch of articles in "Fine Woodworking". I have really enjoyed them both, but I can't wait to get the videos, as I'm a real visual learner.
Rob


 
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Don Stephan

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Subject : RE: Curving Shop-cut Stringing
Posted : 2008-06-26 8:54 PM
Post #34648 - In reply to #34607
In a CAD program I created a series of coincentric circles from about 3" D to about 7" D, with a series of radial lines I think every 45 degrees. I used this as a template to make a segmented ring of black veneer whose inner "diameter" was slightly smaller than 6" and 3/4" wide. Taped this segmented ring to a 6" diameter circle and using the "Schurch chisel method" cut the inner edge of the segmented ring to match with the circumference of my circle. Covered the remainder of the segment with tan masking tape (so I could see the pencil line) and drew a circle 6 1/2" D, then again using the chisel method cut through this pencil line to make the outer edge of the black band around the circle. More work than bending stringing but that wouldn't work at all and this approach does yield a pretty fair looking inlay band. Similar approach would be used for an ellipse. The result was far better than what I could cut on the scroll saw.
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