Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-09-09 11:09 AM
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Steve Curran

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Joined: 2009-11-19
Location: Harrington, Qc.

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Subject : Repairing a curved door
Posted : 2009-11-19 7:58 AM
Post #35776

I resently finished a kitchen for a client which included a round island. Within the round island I made four curved doors. The problem I'm having is one of the four doors pulled out from the bottom 1/4",(opposite side of the hinges). How would I go about pulling that corner in? I'm not looking forward to running kurfs on the back side. The door is made of two pieces of 3/8" plyform which was glued together with PVA glue an then placed in a press. The birch veneer was then applied with contact cement. The doors were then stained and lacquered. Everything fit great when the kitchen was installed. Only within a few months did the corner sneak out. Replacement of the door is not an option as all the doors are book-matched

Thank you in advance for any advice you can offer.


 
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Don Stephan

Posts: 825

Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: Repairing a curved door
Posted : 2009-11-19 7:07 PM
Post #35777 - In reply to #35776

I'm not going to be able to give you an answer you want . . .
From what I saw on the Internet, Plyform is a smooth surface building plywood, so it's not designed to bend easily. In your application, there is a single layer of a non-rigid glue trying to hold two 3/8" pieces of plywood to a curve. Unfortunately, I'd expect all of the doors to "unbend" to some degree. And if that's the case, it will be faster to start over with the four doors rather than devote lots of time and effort trying to combat the unbending. The contact cement is not going to add any stiffness, and solvent stain and lacquer softened the contact cement; quite often in that application the veneer will start to slide down the doors. So after somehow pulling the door back in, it's not unlikely that the veneer will then slide.
Unpleasant as it sounds, I think in the long run the least expensive "fix" would be to make new doors with 1/4" or 1/8" plywood and a rigid adhesive like urea formaldehyde or epoxy. If it's not easy to bend 1/4" ply to the form, use the 1/8". Then, for a permanent veneer bond, glue the veneer to the plywood substrate with urea formaldehyde. Before doing so, sand the faces of the doors well, as plywood isn't always as smooth as we'd like. If there is any question, make a two ply of veneer, and before the glue cures hard attach the two ply to the door. Two ply will be less likely to allow unevenness to telegraph from the plywood to the surface of the veneer.
Sorry I couldn't give you an answer more palatable.


 
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Steve Curran

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Joined: 2009-11-19
Location: Harrington, Qc.

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Subject : RE: Repairing a curved door
Posted : 2009-11-23 6:33 PM
Post #35785 - In reply to #35777

The plyform we have is a flexable plywood which is designed to aide in the forming process. They come in 4x8 sheets. You also have the option of the sheet being flexable on the length or the short depending on the project. They also come in different thicknesses, from 3/8" to 3/4".

Once the glue dries, the sheet becomes very rigid. Fun stuff!!!


 
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Don Stephan

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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: Repairing a curved door
Posted : 2009-11-20 5:54 PM
Post #35778 - In reply to #35776

Forgot to address a point with plyboard last night. Here in Cincinnati lumber yards carry a sheet plywood called MDO (medium density overlay). It has a resin coated paper surface which sounds like that described for plyboard. Don't know if they are the same, the MDO is used extensively for painted signs and such as the core stands up to weather very well, even if exposed unpainted.
The interior of our MDO is very inexpensive - LOTS of voids. I'd expect those voids to telegraph through if a vacuum press was used to glue veneer to the MDO. For curved substrate I've used 1/4" baltic birch ply. Not too long ago I found out that a local distributor (DSI) stocks 1/8" Italian poplar bending ply, which might be an even better substrate material.


 
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Darryl Keil

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Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: Repairing a curved door
Posted : 2009-11-21 9:20 AM
Post #35779 - In reply to #35776

Steve,

Can you give us one more piece of information. What's the radius of these doors?

Darryl Keil


 
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Steve Curran

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Joined: 2009-11-19
Location: Harrington, Qc.

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Subject : RE: Repairing a curved door
Posted : 2009-11-23 6:19 PM
Post #35783 - In reply to #35779

It's about 28" radius on the inside.


 
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craig tufankjian

Posts: 308

Joined: 2004-02-01
Location: syracuse ny 13208

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Subject : RE: Repairing a curved door
Posted : 2009-11-21 1:55 PM
Post #35780 - In reply to #35776

Steve,

Plyform, pva glue, contact cement. three components which will lead to disaster. for radiused doors anyway.

There is one saving grace though. You used contact cement to adhere the veneer. Acetone to the rescue. First I would strip the door of its finish back to bare wood. Then remove the veneer with acetone. Make a new door using urea resin. make the door over sized. Now press the veneer back on using urea resin and trim very carefully the outline of the veneer.

you could also strip the inside of the door and re-press new veneer only this time use urea resin

The above is all moot of course if the veneer was raw veneer and not paper backed. It's not the door that button hooked you it was the "book match"

For future reference, bendable substrates are not the right product for free floating doors. try if possible to design your projects around what is available from curved plywood companies. if the budget can stand it you may want to consider having the doors custom made to the desired size needed. The expense is in the form needed and not the doors themselves. They may have a form which is within 1/4 of what you need .

This type of radiused product is made in an RF press under 200 tons of pressure, not to mention anywhere from 9 to 21 plies of veneer, usually maple or poplar. the glue is cured by radio frequency generator.


 
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Steve Curran

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Joined: 2009-11-19
Location: Harrington, Qc.

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Subject : RE: Repairing a curved door
Posted : 2009-11-23 6:21 PM
Post #35784 - In reply to #35780

I've never had any issues using these products together before.... mind you, I've never done a door this size before.


 
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Don Stephan

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Joined: 2003-07-18
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

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Subject : RE: Repairing a curved door
Posted : 2009-11-29 11:22 AM
Post #35792 - In reply to #35784

Wanted to "activate" this thread to see if anyone has any new thoughts.
I tried to bend a piece of hardwood 3/8" plywood to a 28" radius and it took quite a bit of hand pressure.
Have any of the other three doors developed a problem?



 
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Jeff Patrick


Joined: 2004-04-15
Location: Bainbridge Island, WA

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Subject : RE: Repairing a curved door
Posted : 2009-12-03 7:46 PM
Post #35793 - In reply to #35780

Craig,
Why do you say that bendable substrates are not the right product for this use? I presume you mean they are not right even when glued up with Unibond or other rigid glue and when taking all other precautions including a proper form and vac press.

Can I also presume you to be saying that bendable ply substrates should only be used for frame stabilized panels?

-Jeff


 
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craig tufankjian

Posts: 308

Joined: 2004-02-01
Location: syracuse ny 13208

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Subject : RE: Repairing a curved door
Posted : 2009-12-04 7:43 PM
Post #35794 - In reply to #35793

Jeff,

In my experience they will over time spring back, or loose there shape. I only use that product when the panel is trapped or is being secured to a curved column or wall. Or the radiused piece has fasteners holding it in place. There is still tension in those products even after it comes out of the press.

Veneer, as far as tension is concerned is dead. or at least at 1/20 th thick. also with bending ply there is only one layer of glue, with veneer there are multiple layers which will add to the rigidity.

Not to say that it will fail all the time but it usually does when you dont want it to the most.

attached are some photos of the molds used in RF press as well as an RF press doing some sepentine drawer fronts. The money is in the mold.
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg28/customone/gpcy2.jpg
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg28/customone/gpcy3.jpg





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