Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-02-12 2:48 PM
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SpecialK

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Subject : Veneered Top Without Banding
Posted : 2009-01-16 1:18 PM
Post #35215
45001.1

Happy New Year, all!

I want to create a chest of drawers with some figured veneers for the face of the drawers and also for the top of the chest. I'm okay on the drawer fronts, but I'm wondering if there is a way to create the top using a veneer applied to a glued-up panel of the same species in a way that disguises the glue line between the veneer and the panel. In other words, I don't want any kind of edging. I plan on routing a profile on the edge.

I have a dresser at home that looks like a 1/16 inch veneer on top of a hardwood substrate. I can't see a glue line and the seam between the substrate and the veneer is hidden in the curve of the profile. Or, I'm just imagining this, but the difference in grain lines leads me to believe I'm right.

Anyway, my questions:

1. Is there a standard way of achieving this look (veneer top with profile edge)?

2. Is this all for naught because you can't find 1/16" veneers.

3. Do I have to worry about movement between the veneer and the substrate if they are the same species but the veneer is more figured than the substrate?

4. Is there anything else I'm not asking that I should?

Thanks in advance,

Drew




 
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craig tufankjian

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Subject : RE: Veneered Top Without Banding
Posted : 2009-01-16 3:46 PM
Post #35217 - In reply to #35215
drew,

why not add the solid wood prior to veneering the substrate . then route your profile after veneer is applied.

the profile you use will determine the size of the wood edge to apply. example:

if the router has a 1/2 inch depth of cut, the you wood piece should be 5/8 by the thickness of the substrate. you only want to end up veneering over 1/8 of wood when possible. you should have to two ply the face veneer.

i've attached a cad drawing which is similar to what you are doing .

http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg28/customone/?action=view¤t=tabletop.jpg




 
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Brad

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Subject : RE: Veneered Top Without Banding
Posted : 2009-01-16 6:16 PM
Post #35218 - In reply to #35217
Craig, he was chatting with a few on FWW site and I gather he does not like the edge joint (even though it could be virtually invisible). I think he is set on the veneering the profile like Darryl shows in his DVD when he veneered the moulding. I thought 1/16" thick veneer might be problematic for rolling over the edge profile and splitting could be another problem if he uses a very straight grained wood. The other problem I see is how to deal with the table ends. I think he is stuck using an applied edging at the ends.

Brad


 
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craig tufankjian

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Subject : RE: Veneered Top Without Banding
Posted : 2009-01-16 7:35 PM
Post #35221 - In reply to #35218
oh.... well then he is limited on profiles then. no way to hide the veneer joint.

actually i think he's trying the impossible.


 
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SpecialK

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Subject : RE: Veneered Top Without Banding
Posted : 2009-01-17 10:34 AM
Post #35225 - In reply to #35221
Hey, I can hear you talking about me.

Actually, I appreciate hearing that I am trying the impossible. I certainly don't want to waste my time on something that will be a failure.

I have ordered the video so I can get schooled on any techniques there. And, I am not set on doing this in any particular way other than one that will make the piece look its best and stay that way for a long time. I'm going to try some samples of gluing on an edge and then veneering on top of that and then creating a profile. I get the impression from comments here that this will be a good option.

Any veneering I have done to date has buried the egde of a veneered piece into another piece (i.e., some sort of post-veneer edge or edge banding), so I have no idea what an exposed veneer edge looks like. If it loks good, or even better, invisible, this is certainly the easiest approach, no?

Drew


 
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SpecialK

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Subject : RE: Veneered Top Without Banding
Posted : 2009-01-17 10:37 AM
Post #35226 - In reply to #35217
Craig,

Thanks.

I assume the 1/8 limit is to stay away from issues related to seasonal movement of the substrate edge. Is that so?

Also, I am having trouble getting to your CAD drawing. Photobucket just tells me the operation I am trying to perform has failed.

Drew


 
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craig tufankjian

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Subject : RE: Veneered Top Without Banding
Posted : 2009-01-17 10:51 AM
Post #35227 - In reply to #35226
Drew,

just copy and paste the link in your browser window.

do you want the edge to look just like the veneer your using?

is the top round,square or rectangular?

what species of wood are you using?

and yes, you are correct on the edge movement. however if you two ply the amount of solid wood you veneer over is not an issue.


 
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SpecialK

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Subject : RE: Veneered Top Without Banding
Posted : 2009-01-17 11:16 AM
Post #35228 - In reply to #35227
Craig,

Yes, I would like the edge to look like the top, at least in color and general tone. The grain can be 'softer' (i.e., not as highly figured) as the top surface.

The top is rectangular with a bowed front.

I haven't decided on wood, yet.

What do you mean by two-plying?



 
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craig tufankjian

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Subject : RE: Veneered Top Without Banding
Posted : 2009-01-17 12:54 PM
Post #35229 - In reply to #35228
drew,

a two ply is nothing more than two layers of veneer glued together to form a two plied lay up. the secondary veneer is always run in the opposite direction as the face veneer. any movement in the substrate will be transfered to the secondary veneer and not the face veneer.

http://s244.photobucket.com/albums/gg28/customone/?action=view¤t=twoply.jpg



 
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SpecialK

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Subject : RE: Veneered Top Without Banding
Posted : 2009-01-17 1:24 PM
Post #35230 - In reply to #35229
And this would be necessary with just a 1/8" overlap from, say MDF to a hardwood edge?

When done this way, how is the glue line not prominent?


 
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craig tufankjian

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Subject : RE: Veneered Top Without Banding
Posted : 2009-01-17 1:50 PM
Post #35231 - In reply to #35230
Drew,

if you intend to veneer over wood or a wood edge applied to mdf and the amount you veneer over exceeds 1/8 inch, then yes you should two ply.

example ... lets say you glue a piece of solid wood 3/4 x 3/4 to the edge of 3/4 mdf, lets say you didn't two ply the face, when that wood edges expands and contracts it will take the face veneer with it and the crack in the veneer will show up exactly where you glued the two pieces together.

as for the glue line, there isn't one if done correctly.
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