Darryl Keil Last Activity 2025-09-09 11:09 AM
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Boyd Boggs

 
Subject : Veneering a large starburst pattern
Posted : 2004-08-19 12:02 AM
Post #31723
I need to build an 84" round dining table that will be veneered with macassar ebony in a starburst pattern.This is the first of several questions; What is the best way to get a 1" thick substrate of this size?
BB


 
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Steve Jenkins

Posts: 15

Joined: 2003-12-19
Location: Dallas,TX

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Subject : RE: Veneering a large starburst pattern
Posted : 2004-08-19 8:20 PM
Post #31724 - In reply to #31723
first I'd see if you can do it two pieces or if it has to be one. Moving an 84" round top cn present its own problems. Either way I would use 1" MDF. If two pieces it's easy because you just join them with tite joint fasteners. If it is to be in one piece I would spline and glue the two pieces together. In fact I think that I would lay up the starburst in two halves and glue them together after they aere layed up. Steve


 
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Earl

Posts: 75

Joined: 2003-12-04
Location: Pensacola FL

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Subject : RE: Veneering a large starburst pattern
Posted : 2004-08-20 10:02 AM
Post #31725 - In reply to #31723
Boyd, if you must have 1 in thick top I would make up from 4 halves placing joints 90 degrees from each other. Depending on the type of support underneath I would consider 5/8 or3/4 mdf to make 1 1/4 or 1 1/2 thick top. A thicker top would be more pleasing to the eye. Allow the top to dry out a week or 2 before veneering. And use an underlayment under the face just for insurance. Don't forget to balance on the bottom side.


 
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Darryl Keil

Posts: 1455

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: Veneering a large starburst pattern
Posted : 2004-08-23 8:47 AM
Post #31730 - In reply to #31723
Boyd,

Im with Steve on your question. Lay it up in two haves and spline the top together before you scrape and sand. It will make the lay up so much easier.

Sincerely
Darryl Keil


 
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Boyd

 
Subject : RE: Veneering a large starburst pattern
Posted : 2004-08-23 8:54 PM
Post #31731 - In reply to #31730
I am a bit suprised with your answer Darryl. I was initiallly thinking I would lay up the top substrate as Earl described, but not having gone through the process on this large of a scale I thought I would pose the question to the forum.(which I stumbled across looking at your website to purchase a bag large enough for a single lay up)I am skeptical about edge glueing that size of a top.Would it make sense to combine the two methods.Lay up the veneers separately(on 5/8 mdf)edge glue the surface,then laminate a 2nd 5/8 mdf at 90 to the edge underneath?

thanks boyd



 
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Darryl Keil

Posts: 1455

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: Veneering a large starburst pattern
Posted : 2004-08-24 12:43 PM
Post #31732 - In reply to #31731
Boyd,

On large radial tops the outer edge expands more than the center when the glue makes contact with the veneer. If you press each half seperately the excess can move at the half circle point and be trimmed true later.

I have done a couple tables like this with excellent results and everything goes smoother. Yes, a splined top may not be as strong as a continuous one, but because most tables have some form of apron and cross support I have not found this a problem. I use a wing cutter with a bearing in a router to cut the spline. I find it very accurate for me.

Sincerely
Darryl Keil


 
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Boyd

 
Subject : RE: Veneering a large starburst pattern
Posted : 2004-09-29 10:54 PM
Post #31774 - In reply to #31732
Darryl
I am now thinking 1-1/4" top. Would that be 3/4" veneered both sides with 1/2" perimeter band on flat? Or maybe 5/8" veneered both sides w/ 5/8 band,
or 2 full layers of 5/8,starburst on one,backer veneer one the other , then joined together? Or............. laminate the 5/8 and proceed as if it were 1-1/4 stock?

You mentioned greater movement along circumference of veneer. How much should I expect? I was planning on laying up each 1/2 so that they were a bit more than 1/2 circ. Would an even 1/2 circ with the expansion give me enough to trim straight?

Thanks bb


 
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Darryl Keil

Posts: 1455

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: Veneering a large starburst pattern
Posted : 2004-09-30 9:01 PM
Post #31775 - In reply to #31774
Boyd,

Out of your four choices I would do either the veneer laid up on a 3/4" top with extra flat banding of 1/2" or lay up two 5/8" together and the veneer afterwards. If it doesnt have much understructure I would lean towards the full 1 1/4" top, otherwise I would go for the first option.

You can lay up the halves with no extra and it will swell enough during pressing to give you what you want. You could also pull the four pieces out of the bundle that make up the center seam before trimming this edge and then you would have all the extra you could want.

Sincerely
Darryl Keil


 
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Boyd

 
Subject : RE: Veneering a large starburst pattern
Posted : 2004-10-06 7:19 PM
Post #31790 - In reply to #31775
Darryl
Ive now laminated the 5/8" mdf(so I have two half circs of 1-1/4 substrate}, laminated backer veneer first and have the first half of the laid up starburst in the press.
I used paper backed birch for the backer and obviously did not roll out all the air because I ended up with a 1-1/2" dia. bubble(although glue filled). The backer veneer was flat and in great shape, a seemingly simple lamination. Which worries me a bit given the ebony veneer not perfectly flat and harder to handle. I'll know in the morning.

Now that Ive jumped in, I thinking about the edge. Ive read several alternatives on the forum but not sure what I want to do. I'm leaning towards a thin solid edge that would be veneered vertically,grain matching up with top. Looks like walnut will match nicely with the amber grain in the macassar ebony.I would like to have about an 1/8" of solid stock so I can ease the edge comfortably.Using 1/4 sawn walnut, would this pose any problems? Also what would be the preferrable method of clamping/pressing the veneered edge?

Thanks bb





 
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Darryl Keil

Posts: 1455

Joined: 2003-05-22
Location: Maine

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Subject : RE: Veneering a large starburst pattern
Posted : 2004-10-13 9:00 PM
Post #31812 - In reply to #31790
Boyd,

Sorry, I missed your last thread on this post and just noticed it now. You are probably past your edging question but I will address it anyway.

I would apply the veneer to the solid walnut before you put it on the table. As far as clamping the veneer/solid edging to the table I would make a jig that matches the outer radius of the table including your edging thickness as well as making this jig as thick as the table. This jig would be about 1/4 of the entire radius and you would clamp and glue this amount each time. I am assuming you will have two pieces for this edging so each piece will be clamped twice. I would use bar clamps that reach across the entire table for clamping.

If this doesnt make sense and you havent done it already feel free to call me at 207-725-0935 and I can explain it in more detail

Sincerely
Darryl Keil
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